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Old 02-22-2018, 12:34 AM   #1
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Post size load bearing beam


Hi all. I have a question related to jack studs and/or a post. We previously removed a load bearing wall. The engineer specified a beam of 2- 2X12 supported by 3 - 2X4 jack studs on either end.

I am removing essentially a second (similar wall; same span and well supported below). Based on the snow and dead load calculation I could use 2 ply of 9 1/4 LVL.

As much as possible I would like to minimize the protrusion into the living space of the jack studs. Assuming that on each end I need 1 king stud, could I over spec the beam by using 3-ply of the LVL and and then utilize 2-2X6 king studs instead of 3-2x4 jack studs? This would reduce the protrusion of the post by 1.5 inches (seems trivial but I am working counter top and cabinets around this).

Any other way to make a post more flush. btw - one end of the beam meets the the exterior wall.
Thanks in advance.
Hal
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:55 AM   #2
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Probably would be fine. 2 2x6's have more bearing surface than 3 2x4's. I take it you have thought of putting posts IN the walls?
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:02 AM   #3
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


The "standard" for the amount of bearing surface of a joist is there needs to be 1 1/2 inches bearing on the support.
2 ply Beams require minimum of 3 inches and wider beams need more.

Example would be a header for a 12 foot garage door would need a triple jack stud arrangement. It has to do with the square inches of surface area carrying the weight. The bigger the beam, the more weight and the larger the surface area to avoid the beam or jack studs from "squashing" or collapsing.

The requirement is defined in the National Building Code and applies across Canada.

He has specced a double LVL (3.5 inches wide) landing on a 4.5 inch bearing. Total of 3.5 times 4.5 is 15.75 square inches.
You are asking if a triple LVL (5.25inches) landing on a 3 inch bearing. Total of 15.75 inches.
They are the same bearing, but your Engineer of Record would be the only one to approve of the method you propose. His drawings would need to change and the change would then be acceptable by the local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). Usually, a stamped Engineered drawing will override the local building code.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:02 AM   #4
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Do you need the king stud? King doesn't support the beam. It's there so the beam doesn't twist. Pocket studs on the sides would do the same. If you substitute the jacks with a metal post with a big enough plate, you can bury the post in the wall.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:32 PM   #5
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Thanks all for your comments.

Quote:
....but your Engineer of Record would be the only one to approve of the method you propose.
The Engineer provided specs for removal of the first load bearing wall. If allowable my plan was to submit the building permit for this second project based somewhat on those original specs. The beam and point loads will be directly over an I-beam in the basement below; so I believe that the point load issue is covered.

Yes, I would like to hide the posts within the walls (2x4). - I did not know that this would be possible. I have attached an illustration using Carpdad's suggestion of pocketStuds. Does this seem appropriate?
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Post size load bearing beam-beam-pocket.jpg  
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:24 PM   #6
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Yes.

Now get that drawing approved by the Engineer. The AHJ will inspect it and want to see the drawing to confirm it was approved in that manner.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:28 PM   #7
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


He would be happy with that. I would do one king and fill the rest with 2x4 jacks instead of 2x6s. You get the extra 1/2" bearing.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:21 AM   #8
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


You will have to talk to the engineer. Your I beam beneath may not be designed for the concentrated load from the changes. May have to add some new posts under the I beam (which was my case) right on the slab, or may say you need bigger footings under the loads.
Might as well find out if you can use 3.5" metal post (or concrete filled) compared to the cost of extra lvl.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:27 AM   #9
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Carpdad. Good idea to talk to the engineer (though he is somewhat difficult to track down). I am curious, do you have much of a load above (second floor, etc). My beam is only carrying dead load of roof and snow load.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:51 AM   #10
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


There are other engineers. One I used was a small business referred by the town inspection office. I was even allowed one time favor of making my own drawing of the existing structure. That was for putting a second story on existing one story house. Your case isn't that different because you don't know the capacity of your I beam. Self fix may not be that hard if you decide the fix is worth it. You can break the slab, put in a footing under the load point and support that part of the i beam. But town may want the numbers and a stamp. 24x24x12" deep would be fine for almost anything in a single family house. Use 5000 psi concrete (this is overengineering to keep the engineers quiet). Check the videos on footings, rebars, how to, etc. Make the plan and present it at the town office. You don't have anything to lose.
First thing to do will be to study the beam and what it's supporting. If you have a metal beam 1/4 thick plates, 6" tall and 4" wide flanges, you may need extra supports. That was my case.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:01 PM   #11
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Thank you for these suggestions.
Best,
Hal
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Old 02-25-2018, 11:23 AM   #12
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
He would be happy with that. I would do one king and fill the rest with 2x4 jacks instead of 2x6s. You get the extra 1/2" bearing.
Nealtw. This seems like a reasonable option but the beam pocket with 4 -2x4 would be 3/4 inch wider than the LVL (3ply thickness = 5 1/4). Is this at all problematic?
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:33 PM   #13
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


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Originally Posted by natup View Post
Nealtw. This seems like a reasonable option but the beam pocket with 4 -2x4 would be 3/4 inch wider than the LVL (3ply thickness = 5 1/4). Is this at all problematic?
King stud on one side is fine where I live. The king stud is there to tie to the top plate. You could add the extra and leave or fill the space.
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Old 03-04-2018, 05:59 PM   #14
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Re: Post size load bearing beam


Thanks Neal.
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