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Old 05-27-2009, 07:24 PM   #1
 
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Possibly some advice on subfloor/joist situation: improper hangers and more?


Greetings!

I hope that this is the correct forum for posing this question: I had GREAT advice from the "electrical" contributors several months ago and hoping for the same in this forum.

About a year ago my wife and I bought a house - previous owners had three children AND three dogs - so we knew that there would be a lot of cosmetic fixing up to do: replacing baseboards/drywall, painting, etc. and boy, was it a LOT!

With that all pretty much done, there was a 6-1/2 x 13 foot sunken area with a fireplace(on the first floor over a finished basement), where my wife wanted the carpet replaced with tile. I planned on taking the carpet out and laying 3/4" AC plywood over the 23/32" OSB T&G subfloor. There was some squeaking over 2 joists along the the 6-1/2 foot width that I figured would be rectified with this additional subfloor. I screwed the plywood on the schedule recommended, but that did little to alter the sound, but the floor seemed more solid. I even went so far as to bring Permbase home the other day to commence underlayment installation as my wife said, "Oh, that squeak will go away once the tile is down." BUT, I was nagged by the squeak and, knowing how firm the experts are about NOT tiling over anything that squeaks, I decided to do a little subfloor surgery earlier today by removing the area over the problem joists out to the T&G seam.

Well... it's not a pretty site: I'm not in construction framing or any of the trades but from what I can gather on the net, this install is just plain WRONG! The wrong hangers were used for the 12" I-Joists... there's no web reinforcement... there's no blocking between the top flanges for subfloor support... missing hanger on a joist... there may be more.

I believe we're getting some movement of the I-Beam in the hanger which is the source of the squeak.

The house is ten years old and there is no evidence anywhere on this or the lower level that there is any structural compromise in this particular floor area. Not sure what to do now, and I've already gotten my wife to accept the fact that we may have to go back to carpet with a squeaky floor.

Any assistance will be most appreciated and thank you in advance!

Victor
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Possibly some advice on subfloor/joist situation: improper hangers and more?-subfloor_joists_08-1.jpg  
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:49 PM   #2
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The hangers look like solid sawn wood hangers (regular), not TJI hangers. I - hangers normally come to the top of the top framing member, or it has ply filler on each side of the web. Always use construction adhesive in the hanger before setting the I-joist. Always leave an 1/8" between joist and ends to other material.

Of course all this is done. The majority of squeaks are from the web or center wood rubbing on the material it touches. Pull the side top nails, handsaw a blade thickness off the end of each joist. As the joist flexes from a walking load at center span, the joist moves and rubs near bearing. Just add some ply web fillers.

Page 9, H-1 and page 15, pictures. Nail the osb rim more, while you are there: 6"o.c.---A-3,4.

http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-4000.pdf Be safe, G
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:38 PM   #3
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Wow. Those are absolutely the wrong hangers!

It would be quite a job to replace the hangers but the fact is that it needs to be done. The hangers they installed are called double-shear hangers, which have fewer face nails into the carry beam. Instead they have angled toenail holes in the side of the hanger. Those toenails are intended to penetrate the solid sawn joist (which you don't have) and a couple inches into the carry beam, making a strong connection. Installing those hangers with those joists effectively cuts the load-carrying ability of the hangers pretty much by half.

The lack of web fillers and blocking is not really an issue. With the correct hangers neither is necessary in this application. It'll be a job to cut out a bit of the drywall below but you could definitely remove the existing hangers and install the appropriate face mount hangers for your I-joists. You'll note that they'll have a lot more holes into the carry beam/header, and only a couple into the joist. Plus, they have a spot in the bottom of the saddle to run a small screw to secure the joist in the saddle. Since there are two planes going on with the beam/rim...You may need to rip pieces of 7/16" OSB to serve as shims to facilitate clean and secure installation of the hangers without bending them to fit tight.

A good tip when dealing with joist hangers is to use a BIG glob of subfloor adhesive in the saddle of the hanger where the joist sits. Most of the time the squeaking comes from the hanger moving very slightly up and down in the saddle of the hanger. The adhesive fills the unavoidable gaps and eliminates the potential for movement.
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