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Old 12-08-2009, 06:31 AM   #16
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I dont think my wife will go for the glass blocks plus I have no idea how to install them. Im either A going to replace the same window and completely tile the tub area or B. not install the window.......havent decided yet. So I need vapor barrier for the inside and some sort of house wrap barrier for the outside. What type of wood should I replace the rotted plywood with?

This weekend im going to gut the subfloor. If I have time Ill start pulling the siding off. Doe I need any special tools to remove the siding? I know I need it to reattach it.

Once again thanks for all your help.

Thanks,
Frank
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:53 AM   #17
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If you remove the window entirely and side over it, our building code up here says you have to have a ceiling fan. And then you have to weigh up the aesthetics of boarding up a window, i.e. the look of your house from the outside...

OSB is fine as a sheathing material as long as it is protected from the rain with a plastic air barrier on the outside...standard procedure for re-siding jobs.

Once that is done, then you'll have to turn to water vapour management from the inside. You do that by making sure water vapour does not travel through the walls from the shower side into the insulation and onto the sheathing - that'll give you major similar problems down the road.

Nowadays, we waterproof shower stalls from the inside - that is we control the physical water droplets - and the water vapour - by using membranes that prevent both from travelling through your wall. It's now become a DIY project it's so easy.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:49 AM   #18
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[/quote]Nowadays, we waterproof shower stalls from the inside - that is we control the physical water droplets - and the water vapour - by using membranes that prevent both from travelling through your wall. It's now become a DIY project it's so easy.[/quote]
Got it! So would tiling the bathtub take care of the vapor from the inside? Or certain drywall/insulation?

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Old 12-08-2009, 12:03 PM   #19
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No; tiling in itself will not take care of moisture problems. Tile is not porous but the grout between the tiles is, so the grout (a) stays wet most of the time and (b) lets in vapour. Either one of these two events will cause moulds.

If there is no waterproofing membrane between the tiles and the wall, the vapour will go through the grout and wet the wall - whatever that is. Now if the wall is made of drywall or cement board, moulds will have a field day and colonize that area rapidly.

So the order of materials inside to outside is: tiles (set in thinset); waterproofing membrane; thinset; wall material (gyproc or cement board etc); vapour barrier (if req'd); insulation; studs; sheathing material (viz: OSB etc); air barrier ("Tyvek"); siding.

Now what I mentioned before about spray-foam; this product takes the place of the insulation and the vapour barrier all-in-one product, that's why it is recommended up here in the cold zone.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:05 PM   #20
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ccarlisle what brand do you recommend of the sprayfoam? So if I do the spray foam the order would change to this correct?

tiles (set in thinset); waterproofing membrane; thinset; wall material (gyproc or cement board etc); SprayFoam: studs; sheathing material (viz: OSB etc); air barrier ("Tyvek"); siding. I am going to put the window back I just want to make sure I leave no stone unturned dont want to have to do it again plus it is freezing outside so trying to prepare as much as possible!!

Thanks alot!!

Appreciatively,
Frank
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingonit View Post
Hello All,
Let me start by saying Yes I am a newbie and I have been a long time thread readererer! I did do some searching however my questions still go unanswered. So heres the problem me and my wife purchased a 1978 ranch in NH 4 years ago we have been doing minor repairs and so on fixing flooring a couple additions. Ill spare the saga anyways recently I decided to go hands on with my bathroom which needed an update it was sporting one of those
Quote:
bathroom covers
upon pulling it off HOLY ROT. I have noticed the floor was wet the framing around the window was rotted all the way down to the subfloor. Now the joist underneath are not rotted and Its limited to a small section. So several questions I have I am going to remove the siding and attempt to fix myself. As you can see from the images the rot goes to the bottom however the good news is from what i can see rot is limited to just belwo the window.

1. Is it better to fix from the outside or inside?
2. I noticed part of the subfloor is rotted is it okay to cut that piece out? (this is a non load bearing wall according to my friend)
I will attach some images of the damage so any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Newbie Frank
Hi Frank,

Do you have a picture of the wall before you dismantled it? It seems like you may have had a plastic tubsurround. (what you referred to as a bathroom cover?) Was that installed over tile? Or glued to the sheet rock and vinyl window?

I may be wrong, but it looks like the vinyl window is an insert. which would mean it is screwed through the side into the existing jamb and butted into a wood stop.

Assuming you had a vinyl tub surround glued to whatever, if the joint fails at the bottom of the window, or the window stool is incorrectly sized water will drain like crazy. Also if it was loose around the tub line or corners that will cause additional problems.

My guess would be the majority of the damage is coming via the shower, considering it most likely has had a lot of activity through the years.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:29 PM   #22
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Hey Kevin,
I dont have any pictures however their was a plastic surround that was glued to the drywall. It wasn not connected to the window. The window had a metal casing around the sil which seemed seperate I could be wrong. I am sure much of the water underneath came from the crack in the tub however I know water was getting in via the window because upon pulling out the tub and looking at the window from outside I had not caulked it and it had gaping holes which water was pouring through ha ha. Does this change my approach to fix it?

thanks,
Frank
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:41 PM   #23
 
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a great product to seal your window is "Envelope Sealant", check out BEC Window & Envelope consultants
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:21 AM   #24
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Frank:

Yes, you have the correct placements for all the elements of your new wall. This is how we were taught to make waterproof showers against outside walls with a window and uses the most up-to-date information we know of to achieve that.

To review: a waterproof shower/bath stall is a particular way of making a shower last the longest time possible; what it does - as compared to a regular shower - is it controls the passage of water in liquid and in vapour form through the wall. In fact, it prevents such movement. For this we use a waterproofing membrane (and we use Schluter's "Kerdi" membrane) just underneath the tiles. For climates where insulation is desired, closed cell spray-foam prevents both air movement and vapour movement and is the insulation of choice.

The cost difference between a waterproof shower stall and a non-waterproof shower stall is about $500 for the DIYer, about $1000 installed. Spray-foam insulation can be expensive - there are DIY kits available - but certified contractors are the best choice for speed and ease of application.

A prefabricated shower stall, typically acrylic panels, will act the same as a waterproof shower stall and replace the wall system. However it still needs insulation and water vapour management, but does offer speed of installation.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:44 AM   #25
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If you decide to replace the window over the tub keep in mind that current national standards require such windows to be safety glazed as this is a high risk situation, for instance for people standing on a slippery tub or shower and reaching for the bottle of shampoo on the windowsill, so you can't just install a standard exterior window in this location. (This is a mistake I frequently see at home inspections here in Chicago, and it's sometimes an expensive mistake to correct).
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
Frank:

Yes, you have the correct placements for all the elements of your new wall. This is how we were taught to make waterproof showers against outside walls with a window and uses the most up-to-date information we know of to achieve that.

To review: a waterproof shower/bath stall is a particular way of making a shower last the longest time possible; what it does - as compared to a regular shower - is it controls the passage of water in liquid and in vapour form through the wall. In fact, it prevents such movement. For this we use a waterproofing membrane (and we use Schluter's "Kerdi" membrane) just underneath the tiles. For climates where insulation is desired, closed cell spray-foam prevents both air movement and vapour movement and is the insulation of choice.

The cost difference between a waterproof shower stall and a non-waterproof shower stall is about $500 for the DIYer, about $1000 installed. Spray-foam insulation can be expensive - there are DIY kits available - but certified contractors are the best choice for speed and ease of application.

Quote:
A prefabricated shower stall, typically acrylic panels, will act the same as a waterproof shower stall and replace the wall system. However it still needs insulation and water vapour management, but does offer speed of installation.
ccarlisle hit the bullseye for best overall solution. This is the best approach considering cost and time. It pretty much eliminates future issues with the window or tile leaking, and eliminates grout maintenance issues.

I recently installed a Sterling unit per my plumbers recommendation. The people loved it. They have quite a few styles to choose from. the tub shower unit is around 5 or 6 hundred. Well built and easy to install.

http://sterlingplumbing.com/baths-an...thtub-showers/
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