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Old 01-15-2019, 11:44 AM   #16
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


The joist is there to be a rafter tie which is to hold the outside wall straight.
So the rafter is nailed down to the wall and can't move out. the force on the rafter is pushing against the brick wall so a straight cut with just nails is fine. But I would fill the space above that ledger so you can cut the rafter with out the notch. Attachment of the spacer above the ledger is not all that important because any weight on it will bear down on the ledger.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:23 PM   #17
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
The joist is there to be a rafter tie which is to hold the outside wall straight.
So the rafter is nailed down to the wall and can't move out. the force on the rafter is pushing against the brick wall so a straight cut with just nails is fine. But I would fill the space above that ledger so you can cut the rafter with out the notch. Attachment of the spacer above the ledger is not all that important because any weight on it will bear down on the ledger.
This is great guidance. So, would you recommend adding joists tied to the rafters at the wall, or do you think it's possible to leave them out of the plan?
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:33 PM   #18
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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This is great guidance. So, would you recommend adding joists tied to the rafters at the wall, or do you think it's possible to leave them out of the plan?
I am not sure but I think rafter ties should be every 4 ft.
I don't know if that is a rule or just common practice.
I have worked mostly with trusses for the last 20 years.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:04 PM   #19
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
I am not sure but I think rafter ties should be every 4 ft.
I don't know if that is a rule or just common practice.
I have worked mostly with trusses for the last 20 years.
Regardless you've helped me see the situation much more clearly. You've helped me eliminate some lesser alternatives and most importantly I think I now have two very important engineering questions I should be able to get answers to:

1) What sort of material/connection is adequate to build up the upper ledger to accommodate hangers and the 2x10 LvL rafters (which will now be installed without compromising their strength with a level and plumb notch).

2) What sort of bracing or horizontal ties are necessary at a minimum to secure the outside wall from being pushed.

I'm confident I can get an engineer's opinion on that and I'll posy back here what he/she says. Thanks!
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:19 PM   #20
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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Regardless you've helped me see the situation much more clearly. You've helped me eliminate some lesser alternatives and most importantly I think I now have two very important engineering questions I should be able to get answers to:

1) What sort of material/connection is adequate to build up the upper ledger to accommodate hangers and the 2x10 LvL rafters (which will now be installed without compromising their strength with a level and plumb notch).

2) What sort of bracing or horizontal ties are necessary at a minimum to secure the outside wall from being pushed.

I'm confident I can get an engineer's opinion on that and I'll posy back here what he/she says. Thanks!
If you are installing rafter ties, then you don't need hangers at the top.
2x6 would be fine for the rafter ties you can add a 2x4 from the rafter down to the tie to hold it up in the center.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:37 PM   #21
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
If you are installing rafter ties, then you don't need hangers at the top.
2x6 would be fine for the rafter ties you can add a 2x4 from the rafter down to the tie to hold it up in the center.
Perhaps some ties would eliminate the need for hangers at the top, however, I'm essentially trying to avoid it it possible. I would want to keep them very minimal to maintain overhead space.

Also I'm still seeing using the hangers as the solution for maintaining my crown height (deck height) as it was with the old 2x6s, since hopefully by using the hangers and only a plumb cut, the whole 2x10 beam could be installed lower down so that its crown matches the crown height of the old dimensional 2x6 rafters.

Maybe that could be accomplished with a deeper cut into the new 2x10s? I'm out of my league there. But either way I like the idea of keeping the LvLs as strong as possible end to end if I'm going to spend the money on them.

That being said, I don't know much about what I speak!
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:53 PM   #22
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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Originally Posted by nlesun View Post
Perhaps some ties would eliminate the need for hangers at the top, however, I'm essentially trying to avoid it it possible. I would want to keep them very minimal to maintain overhead space.

Also I'm still seeing using the hangers as the solution for maintaining my crown height (deck height) as it was with the old 2x6s, since hopefully by using the hangers and only a plumb cut, the whole 2x10 beam could be installed lower down so that its crown matches the crown height of the old dimensional 2x6 rafters.

Maybe that could be accomplished with a deeper cut into the new 2x10s? I'm out of my league there. But either way I like the idea of keeping the LvLs as strong as possible end to end if I'm going to spend the money on them.

That being said, I don't know much about what I speak!
Have you talked to the engineered truss people yet.
The can be cheaper, when you are talking about LVLs.
They could build them to sit on the lower ledger, they just design them around that needed notch or tell you what you need to do.
The would need exact location of the two ledgers., the slope you have and the heel cut.
Heel cut.
If you were to order say 14 ft trusses. At that 14 ft mark at the edge of the wall you measure up to the bottom of the sheeting. maybe plus 1/4" if you are using thinner sheeting. So the finished height would be the same.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:44 PM   #23
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Re: Need help replacing old rafters when specs call for bigger ones


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Have you talked to the engineered truss people yet.
The can be cheaper, when you are talking about LVLs.
They could build them to sit on the lower ledger, they just design them around that needed notch or tell you what you need to do.
The would need exact location of the two ledgers., the slope you have and the heel cut.
Heel cut.
If you were to order say 14 ft trusses. At that 14 ft mark at the edge of the wall you measure up to the bottom of the sheeting. maybe plus 1/4" if you are using thinner sheeting. So the finished height would be the same.
It's an interesting idea but, since I have the opportunity to fix an outbuilding with a little less on the line, part of this process for me is learning to stick build and gain some real experience. And while I don't know if I'll be willing to deck it with T&G like it used to be, this is a unique old farm and I'm always trying to replicate as much of what was there before as I can. But I'm sure there would be benefits to the truss approach as well.
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