Need To Build A Divider Between Properties. Cement Help - Building & Construction - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Building & Construction

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 10-06-2010, 09:19 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 167
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Need to build a divider between properties. Cement help


Hi,
My parent's neighbors are lazy $#%#@. They have clogged gutters, back yard drains are messed up, and their property sits about 3" higher than my parents, and it all drains toward the houses Wasn't a problem before, but now seems to have finally made its way to the basement.

I plan on building a little retaining wall out of concrete between the properties. I plan on building a plywood form, about 2' high, 8' long, 3" thick. I've mixed concrete before, but mostly for building decks and some pointing. Figured I get some pointers from the pros.

My questions:
1. What would be the best MIX for this type of wall?
2. Should I put wire reinforcement in it? I would like it to last a long time.
3. Should I put any attachment anchors in the concrete slab that is already there?
4. Is there a cement calculator out there to figure out how much material I need for this?

I also plan on cleaning the neighbors gutters, and pointing / caulking the seams by the house.

Thanks in advance.
slickgt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-06-2010, 10:07 AM   #2
Jack of all - master none
 
hyunelan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SW Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,304
Rewards Points: 692
Default


Beware of anything you do that can affect drainage patterns. If it's a newer (last 30ish years, maybe longer) development, there is a drainage plan that specifies where water is supposed to go - you can't put up a wall to change that.

I can't help you with the concrete mix problem, though it seems it would be cheaper to clean the neighbors drains than build a reinforced concrete wall.
hyunelan2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-06-2010, 12:25 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 986
Rewards Points: 980
Default


I'm no expert on this, but I live in an old house in an old neighborhood. Almost every house here has a concrete curb that divides the properties. With that, every one I have seen has no steel in it and most of them are cracking and settling in many different directions. Generally they are about 4-6" wide and 1-2' deep.

Personally, I would put steel in if I were building one and pin it to any other concrete it would be next to if you don't wish for it to move around. Rebar is fairly inexpensive and probably your best bet, but anything is better than nothing. IF you decide to pin it, you're probably going to want to use a hammer drill to drill the holes, otherwise plan on spending a lot of time and effort.

Concrete mix, I can't help with. Bags of quikcrete would probably be fine or you can hire a truck, but they may have a minimum charge. Here it is 2-3 yards. Another option is check with the local rental houses, aroud here they sell it pre-mixed and ready to haul.

As for calculaters, may I suggest google! ....that's where I go if I need to find one.
Master Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-06-2010, 12:37 PM   #4
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 5,832
Rewards Points: 5,246
Default


Based on your dimensions, the wall would have a total of 2 ft x 8 ft x 1/4 ft = 4 cubic feet of concrete, which is four bags of mix at the Big Box store. At 3 inches thick, you cannot place any steel effectively, since you will not have adequate cover, and the steel will rust and pop your concrete out. Also, at three inches thick, the concrete is going to be very weak, but that should not be an issue unless someone hits the wall.

As mentioned, you are almost certainly going to need a permit for this, I recommend applying since your neighbor could complain, which could lead to real grief and consternation.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 02:45 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Off the grid
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default


another possible alternative, is a technique called "ferrocement" (at least on the internet it is.) If you google ferrocement you'll find lots of info on it. Basically it's layers of chicken wire and a cement with sand mix, thin, cheap, and according to everything i've read, durable.
I haven't tried it yet (so i know nothing first hand), but i'm planning to build a 15,000 gallon water tank with it, after first experimenting with a sun barrier for my existing water system, and a couple of smaller projects.
http://ferrocement.com/tankBook/indici.en.html

Last edited by greaserig; 10-06-2010 at 03:02 PM. Reason: better wording
greaserig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 03:33 PM   #6
Member
 
steveel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 287
Rewards Points: 250
Default


Instead of building dam to form a lake on your neighbors side of the line (or basement), could you simply grade your side of the line into a swale, to intercept the surface flow and make it flow along the property line to somewhere "safe"? That's what I'm doing, plus burying a shallow french drain in the bottom of the swale.
steveel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 12:07 PM   #7
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,786
Rewards Points: 518
Default


If you're hell bent on building the concrete wall, I'd suggest going about 6" thick for the wall, as 3" is probably a waste of effort. 2 - 3/8" rods horiz. in the wall, dowels into the patio every 1-2' would be ideal.

I'd agree with the poster above though, re-grading of the soil would be a better long term solution most likely.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 12:26 PM   #8
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 4,113
Rewards Points: 2,716
Default


Since the natural drainage seems to be from the neighbors property to yours.

If you obstruct the natural drainage and it backs up, you could be held responsible unless you can find an outlet at either end of the wall.

If I was a lazy neighbor that does not like to work and do things, after the water backs up, I could get a price from a contractor to make changes and the go to court to have the person that caused the damage (you) pay for the corrections. If you do not ahave a permit to protect you, there might be little defense for you.

Dick
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 09:48 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 167
Rewards Points: 150
Default


Hi everyone. Thanks for all the answers.

To clear some things up.
I cannot re-grade the back yard at all. Both the yards are concrete slabs throughout 90% of each backyard. Both my parents yard and the neighbor have 3 drains each. One drain in the middle of the yard, one by the house, and one by the basement door. None of the drains in the neighbor back yard drain, AT ALL. At some point, the neighbor, must have re-cemented the entire back yard, effectively raising their slab by 3 inches. My parent's water flow is toward the drains. The neighbor flow is toward my parents house.

Fixing the neighbor's gutters is only part of the problem. I don't think I was too clear on that part. Their gutters overflow to the point that there is a waterfall every time it rains. Now since their gutter is pitched toward my parent's house, a ton of water literally pours right against the house foundation. I plan on addressing this too, but the drainage from the neighbors concrete slab sends a river to my parents property, especially during heavy rain.

As far as fixing the neighbor's gutters, I don't know how much I will be able to do without charging them something. I can clean it on top, but a lot of the drain pipe sections have burst from the previous winters of clogged drains. I have offered to clean/replace their drains previously, they refused. And they have people living in the basement, which floods during heavy rains. I suspect that the drain by their basement door doesn't work at all, and fills up like a pool. The door is rotted out, and this door is on a foot high threshold. We are talking about cheap **** dirty neighbors here.

I already checked with the architect that I use. I was assured that I should not have a problem with building the wall, as long as it's on my property, and doesn't affect the draining plan, which it doesn't.

I might actually go to 8" thick, as my mom is thinking of making bench seating out of it.

I do plan on anchoring the wall. I will drill into the wall and the slab, connect rebar/chicken wire to both the house, and the concrete slab. I also plan on applying a silicone bead at the area where the neighbors slab is going to be in contact with the new wall (at the corners).

Thanks again. I really appreciate it. Let me know if there is something I missed. Thanks.
slickgt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 10:05 AM   #10
Member
 
steveel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 287
Rewards Points: 250
Default


This may be a silly question, but have you checked to see if they are in violation of any landlord-tenant laws, and have you asked the city code people if they can force your neighbors to fix the gutters and drains?


PS You mentioned you can't do something to your neighbors place without charging them with something. If you cross the line without permission it is they who might charge you with something. Anything from trespass to property damage. Your lawyer can advise you further as to your civil remedies (ie sticking them with the bill for damage and mitigation efforts).

Last edited by steveel; 10-08-2010 at 10:08 AM.
steveel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2010, 10:10 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 986
Rewards Points: 980
Default


You mention making a seat out of this, does this mean you are going to have it sticking out of the ground 18"+? You mentioned 2' depth earlier, that doesn't leave much in the ground and I'd think it would topple. Have you thought about putting down a bed of gravel about 8-12" (double check that depth) and then dry stacking either concrete block and capping with stone or either just doing a stone retaining wall. My guess is that would do what you need without all the effort of pouring concrete. I would think it could be done to look very nice and cover your butt just in case the drainage did get changed! An easy test would be a railroad tie....
Master Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 12:14 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 167
Rewards Points: 150
Default


Thanks all for your help. I ended up using concrete block, re-bar into floor 4". Concrete mix to fill them in, and stucco over them. Ended up doing 5 blocks long, 2 high. Pitched it away from the house as well. Looks good. Seems strong, walked on it, kicked it a bunch of times, not too hard as I figure the concrete needs some time to cure completely, but feels very heavy duty. Turns out she doesn't want a sitting area, but somewhere to have her potted plants. Either way, the blocks are about 80" long, so if the water does pool up, it will go downgrade and into the gardens for both properties.

Also talked to the neighbor, and she paid me $50 to clean out her gutter and put gutter mesh/filter on them. Whatever she paid is fine by me as long as the water problem goes away. Oh by the way, I took out almost a full contractor bag of leaves, twigs and roof gravel out of the neighbor gutter.
slickgt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need to build a divider between properties. Cement help slickgt1 Building & Construction 0 10-06-2010 09:08 AM
general question on portland cement rtoni Building & Construction 2 07-11-2009 08:32 AM
Rotten cement - skim coat or board? BradG Building & Construction 1 11-25-2007 02:25 PM
cement falling into basement from cement porch above. Betsy G Building & Construction 3 10-21-2007 12:53 PM
Siding: Cement Vs. Cedar Grumpy Remodeling 5 03-19-2005 01:07 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts