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Old 09-11-2014, 11:04 PM   #1
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Leaking patio door, rotted subfloor


I've been lurking for a while and not posting much since, honestly, most of you are light years over me and I don't feel qualified to offer advice to most, but I greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge here.

I have a Marvin Integrity sliding patio door that has been leaking somewhere near the bottom corner on the side where the operator closes. There is a spot of rotted subfloor directly below this corner that, combined with some ants in the past, is completely through to the basement and must be replaced. I haven't been able to determine if it is leaking from water coming down the glass and making it through somewhere in the threshold area or if it is coming in between the door and the RO due to some issue with the siding. I'm leaning towards the first based on the placement and lack of damage to the surrounding wall after I pulled some trim and opened some sheetrock.

Either way, the door has to come out to replace the subflooring that is rotted underneath and to inspect the RO, so I have some questions:

- Being an original installation door, is it most likely hold in with a nailing fin or are there some really well hidden fasteners behind some trim on the jamb?

- If it is a nailing fin, do I need to pull the siding all around the door or is there a trick to getting it out so it can be put back in?

- Once it's out, I'm pretty sure I'm going to find a poor or non-existent flashing job. Is the best way to do it a self-adhesive flashing membrane wrapped up the sides, followed by a sill pan like a JamSill or SureSill? If not, what would you recommend?

- What should I be looking for or adding to the top or sides to make sure it is sealed up right? There is a decent eave there but while I'm in there, might as well do it right.

- After it's out and the subfloor is replaced, I'm going to find the leaky spot and caulk the crap out of it. Any recommendations on caulking to use on a wooden framed door? If the frame is rotted I will be replacing it with a vinyl one from Menards.

- Anything to be aware of when closing everything back up? Sill flashing, sill pan, plumb and square, etc.

I've already looked into it with insurance and this isn't covered since the damage was done over a long period of time. Odd that the policy specifically names rot and mold remediation...not sure how you'd get that from a one time event.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:45 AM   #2
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Your on the right track.
The sill pan is the best way to go with silicone under it. (Home Depot now sells them.)
Window and door tape up the sides at least 12".
It's best to cut that rotted subflooring back about 2' into the room, a narrow strip will flex.
Add blocking where the seams will be.
If there is a nailing fin the best way is to remove the siding and J moulding.
Just makes no since to have to work around it.
There also needs to be a strip of Z moulding over the top of the trim at the top of the door.
A properly installed door only needs caulking under the sill pan.
It's also important to add support under the threshold on the outside where the threshold sticks out past the sheathing.
I use 1 X PVC lumber with trim head screws. Whatever you use it can not stick out past the threshold!
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:09 AM   #3
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Just talked with my local building supplier to see what they had for sill products and he reminded me that anything beyond membrane flashing will add to the overall height and require material to be taken off the rough opening. Looks like they, through Marvin, recommend a Tyvek brand window and door wrap. Does this just get stapled to the backside of the jamb to create a dam to prevent water from flowing in?
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:17 PM   #4
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If this was framed correctly there completely wrong with that info.
Should be plenty of room for a pan.
A pan is less then 1/8 thick, there's often up to 1" of space over the top of the door.
The biggest difference between a pan and just sealing tape is a pan bends up on the inside on the back side of the threshold to make it imposable for water to do anything but run out to the outside.
Just flat tape laying on the subfloor is not going to do anything but protect the subfloor directly under the threshold and not redirect the water.
Google "jam sill" to take a look.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:20 PM   #5
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I was actually considering a SureSill, but basically the same sing and JamSill. I get what you're saying with plenty of room. He specifically mentioned folding it up and stapling it to the inside of the jamb/threshold (not sure which part but I have the image). I think I may see if I can order a JamSill-type product online and return it if there isn't room.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:15 AM   #6
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The slide door itself may be the problem. The frame bottom corners are joined and the water proofing there may be a strip of foam which failed or just wasn't done right from the beginning. Sill pan helps but does not end the problem. Inspect the weather strips on both doors. Also, the stationary door must be tight to the frame.
About the flashing, all of them must be overlapped following gravity and extended to finishing material that won't rot - usually the concrete foundation.
Before you remove the frame, see if the doors will operate if there were screw heads on the frame. Doors have weather strips and recesses where they may close over the screw heads. There are also screws with more flat heads.
If so, remove the frame by cutting through the frame nailing strips then reinstall using shims and screws through the frame.
Sheet metal flashing can be slid under the siding and caulked to the frame. Cleaning and priming the wood edge for best caulking. I like OSI quad polymer caulk. If you have polyurethane, make sure it still flows - probably not.
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Old 09-13-2014, 04:19 PM   #7
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Here is a link to some pictures of what I have found thus far. I THINK I have this set right so you shouldn't need to be logged into Google do see them:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...UU&usp=sharing

There appears to be a metal sill pan with tabs of adhesive flashing all around, but I think the problem is visible in the first picture. I won't know for sure until I pull the door but it seems that water is able to get in around that crack between the channel for the siding (which is pulled back in the picture), the nailing fin, and the sheet metal flashing. It's tough to tell but that is metal flashing, not house wrap. You can see it better in the last picture.

So now, what looks good, what looks bad, and what needs to be done to make sure I never have to deal with this again? The door will come out, anything rotted will be replaced, and things will start going back together. I know to install the door with caulking on the bottom and self adhesive flashing up the sides, and I'm going to hopefully have room for a sill pan product. Beyond putting down a bunch of caulking how do I close up that hole?
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:38 AM   #8
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As long as you have the deck flush with the door, you can't say you'll never have that problem. You can eliminate some possible water channels:
1. slope the vinyl channel away from the door. The channel should have had the door end closed/caulked.
2. the metal flashing is probably a drip cap for the deck ledger. Order of flashing should be: stick on flashing over frame - drip cap over ledger - another flashing over drip cap and door pan. First course of decking must be removed for proper inspection/flashing.
When decking is replaced, cut a notch the length of the door so water can drain freely. 1/4" of threshold sitting on decking is strong enough for stepping on.
Stick on flashing over sides would follow the bottom course.
Caulk between flashing and door frame for each course of flashing.
Before you are ready to nail on the side/top vinyl channel, apply caulk to the channel to have some seal between the channel and the door frame.
Although your overhang probably keeps the rain from the top channel, that should be installed with slight bow so that it can drain as well. Joint between top and side channels should be studied. You are supposed to cut a tab that bends over the side. I caulk this joint as well as I can. I use miter joint and lock the joint with snap off ribbet and finish the head with color matched caulk.
Top should have drip cap as well as flashing that goes over the vinyl channel.
Hope it works out for you, because I have a feeling I didn't organize this answer well.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:40 AM   #9
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Well, the repair is done. I followed every piece of advice above and did manage to install a JamSill PVC sill pan. There is adhesive membrane flashing in the corners and all along the nailing fin. The siding was originally installed with the drain tabs on the top channel and that was maintained and caulking was added. It took about 6 hours total and I still need to put fiberglass insulation in along the jams and put the trim back on, but it is weather tight and my wife is calm again. She was surprise at how little swearing went into this project and how smoothly it went.
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