J-Weep / Flashing For Exterior Cultured Stone Veneer Wall. - Building & Construction - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

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Old 08-29-2009, 07:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Spud View Post
Does water pass straight through the front and also through the back side of the Sure Cavity or does it just pass through the front then enters the channels but does NOT pass through the back side? Is the back side a WRB?

The Sure Cavity or Drainwrap merely form a drainage plain behind the stone system. Any water is intended to drain thru or behind (against the second layer of tarpaper) the drainage plain & out @ the bottom of the wall.

So using a Sure cavity , a wall would look like this?

Sheathing--->Flashing (bottom only) ---->Tvyek/Housewrap---> Tarpaper---->Sure Cavity---->Metal Lathe---->mortar scratchcoat----->Stone Veneer buttered with setting mortar

Does there need to be a housewrap like Tvyek and Tarpaper or will Tarpaper alone suffice?

Either 1 Tyvek (or similar product) + 1 tarpaper OR
1 tarpaper + 1 tarpaper

I talked to a technical Info representative at Huberboard about their Zip Wall System Board and installation of Stone Veneer Siding.

The Rep. on the phone said flashing directly onto their Wallboard then taped with Zip Sealing Tape over the top edge of the flashing would suffice but he emailed me their installation practice and It says:

Install flashing directly on top of Zip Wallboard then tape with Zip sealing tape lapped over top edge of flashing then Water Resistant Barrier for entire wall area . Dam it, I thought I could just forgo the WRB!


Reading your response , I understand I need to use tarpaper if Tvyek is used as it is best practice and also now Wis. code. You mention that Tarpaper is a WRB so this would satisfy the Zip Wallboard installation requirement for a WRB between mortar and the wallboard.

I got interested in the Zip system because it does away with a housewrap/WRB . With a housewrap/WRB I think I would have to remove the windows so the WRB/Housewrap can be folded into the window opening??, something I am not keen on doing.

No removing the windows, flash the windows with 4" or 6" window flashing tape (directions are on the roll or someone else may be able to elaborate more), & add a weep screed or simple Z flashing over the windows.

I am seriously considering ditching the cultured Stone Veneer siding idea because due to weather I am not sure I can accomplish it all , with this daily rain and soon to come cold weather. Especially if I have to remove windows to install tarpaper/WRB and the Sure Cavity requires flashing around windows. Just the short time window is putting me off .

Spud, you have 2-3 months min. to pull this off this year yet!
Don't think that full depth brick is any easier to install yourself than cultured stone. As a matter of fact, I can almost guarantee it will take a DIY'er longer to install brick to an acceptable level.
It will take you longer to remove & dispose of the brick & siding than it will be to flash windows & penetrations, install WRB's & drainage plane, & install lath.

The same window flashing is necessary regardless of the siding/cladding you are installing, whether it be vinyl sideing, cement board, aluminim, cultured stone, brick, etc...
At least one layer of WRB & the same details around penetrations are still critical, regardless of the sideing material.

I currently just have partial full brick siding on the front, was thinking of just making it total front brick siding. There are no veep holes for this brick siding so I would have to knock it down then install flashing then brick it up. I don't like the color of the brick anyways so knocking it down isn't a big deal for me.

Reason I was looking at the Stone Veneer is
a) like the Stone (flagstones) look over brick
b) can do the sides of the house without need for a concrete footing, currently sides of house has no concrete footing/foundation past the walls.

I don't know how to build a concrete footing, which is a requirement for full brick siding. I assume the front has this footing since it already has full brick siding.

Spud, I will honestly say I have never had to build an actual brickledge foundation after the fact, only looked into it a few times. Before I would ever tackle such a laborious endeavor, I would either: A) call in an engineer, who can normally spec out an angle iron with customized anchoring OR B) saw thin brick AND attatch exactly the same as way as cultured stone.

An application such as yours (no brickledge) is exactly where cultured stone & NTV really make sense.


Whew soo many questions and typing. Thanks for patiently addressing my queries.
No problem, I merely want to help you & others understand that cultured stone isn't as simple as it may appear, but is attainable with correct understanding & preperation.
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:04 PM   #17
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That is exactly what I am advocating, Jomamma. The EIFS manufacturers were correct Michael Thomas. That is a very technical system, and unless done exactly right, and in only the correct application locations, it will fail. The same is true of an adhered veneer, with the following caveat: Treated as the finish coat of a traditional 3-coat cementious stucco wall system, the veneer stone will neither create or cause any issues.

As always, the devil is in the details.
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Old 08-30-2009, 08:00 AM   #18
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Tscar, I know next to nothing about any stucco system, as it's not very common in this area. The few jobs that were done years ago were done by plasterers, & not masons. Now, it seems to be all EIFS.

I did a search for 3 coat stucco systems & found this link below. If this is what you would recommend, I would tend to agree. The only thing I would add would be the Drainwrap or Sure Cavity type product over the tarpaper layer for added insurance.


I would also agree that the wall should be water-proof BEFORE the lath is installed. Cultured Stone is far too porous, & the joints (or lack thereof) can contain many areas for water to enter.

There is one other issue I should mention that lead WI to add tarpaper to the code recently. Example: Rain soaks the masonry wall (brick, cultured stone, whatever it is), sun eventually bakes on the wall when damp, water in stone heats up & eventually becomes VAPOR, & vapor gets driven thru the Tyvek to the interior, now colder, side of the wall. As we know, Tyvek cannot stop vapor, as it is intended only to stop actual water.

Spud, you could use the above link (up to the second coat & minus the control joints) to give yourself a better idea of how to properly prep the wall.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:44 PM   #19
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Here are a couple new systems you might want to investigate:


They may not have the same look you are going for, but they are mechanically sound and pretty simple to install.
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