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Old 01-01-2017, 09:35 AM   #1
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Help with XPS layout for small room


Hi Folks,

I'm in St. Louis, MO and planning to finishing one final small room of my basement. I have finished the rest already. I was planning to use 2" XPS foam board on the exterior foundation walls, followed by framed wall with roxul insulation.

The foundation walls are roughly 8.5' in height, and I'm not finding 4'x9' foam board sheets local, so I'm stuck with 8 footers and lots of splices. I attached a photo that shows the layout I'm proposing. I have 3 walls and a ceiling. I would love any comments on how to best layout the boards (I've played with a few variations so far).

Also, is it worth getting T&G and keeping it intact for all pieces? I'm thinking it's going to cost me a lot more in waste if I do so.


(Ignore the colors, I was trying to use it organize how many boards I would need and each unique color was to represent a board)

Thanks in advance,
Matt
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:00 AM   #2
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


Here is an alternative layout of the boards:

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Old 01-01-2017, 10:20 AM   #3
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


Ok, here's one more layout

The first image shows the boards as they will be laid out on the wall




The second shows how the 4x8 sheets will be cut to generate the pieces. (The colors should match)



My thoughts/questions:
* I'm concerned about reusing the cut edge so many time for those small pieces.
* Also, should I keep my T&G edge by using a piece for each of those long strips, eg 16"x96,21"x96"?
* Finally, this layout leaves me with many instances of 4 pieces coming together at one point. Will that be a problem? I guess I can alternate the small piece from top or bottom.

Last edited by mklein49; 01-01-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:44 PM   #4
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


Hi mk, sorry for my comment but, you are over-thinking this process. What is your concern related to having a perfect fir, air sealing or insulating value?

Any air sealing issues, keeping inside air away from a cold concrete surface are easily resolved by taping and/or some caulking. As for insulation performance, any flaws would be too small to show up in your total heat loss, ie your energy costs. Plus you will have the additional air sealing and insulating performance of the new wall on the inside.

Keep the rigid foam tight to the wall.

Bud
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:14 PM   #5
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


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Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
Hi mk, sorry for my comment but, you are over-thinking this process. What is your concern related to having a perfect fir, air sealing or insulating value?

Any air sealing issues, keeping inside air away from a cold concrete surface are easily resolved by taping and/or some caulking. As for insulation performance, any flaws would be too small to show up in your total heat loss, ie your energy costs. Plus you will have the additional air sealing and insulating performance of the new wall on the inside.

Keep the rigid foam tight to the wall.

Bud
Hi bud,

I'm new to much of this and I try to get as much planning done up front to save possible issues while I'm working. It may very well be overkill, but it's easy for me to play with those drawings.

That a side the true goal for me is air seal. Since, I finished the basement I've felt we're constantly getting dust from this unfinished area below the porch. At first I thought it may be drywall dust, but after cleaning many times, I'm thinking the source is something from the outside.

This area is below our front porch. One one of the exterior walls, there is concrete, with cinder blocks on top, finally the masonry starts on top of the cinder blocks. I'm thinking the source of the "dust smell" is from some gap there, so my hope was to seal with the foam and then frame/drywall just to cover the foam.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:27 PM   #6
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


The natural air flow through a home in winter is the cold outside air pushing in through leaks in the lower area of a home and forcing the warm air up and out the higher leaks. So your concern seems possible, the dust may well be coming from that area.

Before you cover the foundation with the rigid do what caulking you can to seal the obvious leak areas. In a typical home that will be where the wood framed home rests on the foundation. Below grade is only a concern if your foundation is made of blocks, then a leak on the outside in one location can enter the basement a considerable distance away.

Pictures would help.

Bud
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:30 PM   #7
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


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The natural air flow through a home in winter is the cold outside air pushing in through leaks in the lower area of a home and forcing the warm air up and out the higher leaks. So your concern seems possible, the dust may well be coming from that area.

Before you cover the foundation with the rigid do what caulking you can to seal the obvious leak areas. In a typical home that will be where the wood framed home rests on the foundation. Below grade is only a concern if your foundation is made of blocks, then a leak on the outside in one location can enter the basement a considerable distance away.

Pictures would help.

Bud
Before I finished the rest of the basement, I had the rim joists spay foamed. All that's left exposed is this odd area, with blocks on top of the foundation wall, with the bricks on top of that. The porch slab sits on top of all of this. I'll grab some pictures tonight when we get back from dinner.
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:39 PM   #8
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


Just to mention but another source of dust, often related to air sealing, is back drafting combustion appliances like a furnace or water heater. Sorry if I'm not keeping up with your post history, us old goats need to be reminded often, I think.

Bud
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:13 PM   #9
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


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Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
Just to mention but another source of dust, often related to air sealing, is back drafting combustion appliances like a furnace or water heater. Sorry if I'm not keeping up with your post history, us old goats need to be reminded often, I think.

Bud
I have never posted regarding the dust issue. In hindsight, I probably should have. For the longest time, I just assumed we had not cleaned up the drywall dust. I think the source is most definitely that area, though. We have an electric water heater, and the furnace is a high efficiency one with the intake and exhaust run to the outside. We notice the smell year round also. I wonder if I should create a dedicated thread for the dust problem?

Here are some pictures that show the top of the foundation wall









Here is a photo from the outside of the below porch area


And here is one from the finished area looking into this room:



Added a simple floor plan.




picture upload

Last edited by mklein49; 01-01-2017 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Add picture description
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:26 PM   #10
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


Not backdrafting so few sources left. The only one that comes to mid from the pictures is concrete dust. but I usually associate that with foot traffic.

let's see if some of the pros will comment.

Bud
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:31 PM   #11
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


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Not backdrafting so few sources left. The only one that comes to mid from the pictures is concrete dust. but I usually associate that with foot traffic.

let's see if some of the pros will comment.

Bud
This is how I jumped to wanting to just cover the walls up to see if it solves the problem.

By the way, will I be able to pull out the nails holding up that strip of plywood or will I have to work around it by trimming the foam board?
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:50 PM   #12
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


Well, the 2" of rigid will certainly cover them, but I don't see where it will be covering any air leaks. But in MO the extra insulation won't go to waste.

As for the nails they won't pull out of concrete very easily. I would grind off the heads and pry the plywood off. Then break or grind off the remaining nails. If you don't have a grinder, they are handy and this is a good excuse to pick one up. I use mine frequently.

Bud
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:28 PM   #13
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Re: Help with XPS layout for small room


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Originally Posted by Bud9051 View Post
Well, the 2" of rigid will certainly cover them, but I don't see where it will be covering any air leaks. But in MO the extra insulation won't go to waste.

As for the nails they won't pull out of concrete very easily. I would grind off the heads and pry the plywood off. Then break or grind off the remaining nails. If you don't have a grinder, they are handy and this is a good excuse to pick one up. I use mine frequently.

Bud
Got started today after a major cleanup effort. Followed you recommendation for the plywood and nails and that was no problem. Thanks! I wonder if the source was just concrete dust in this room. I kicked up a TON of dust while using the grinder to cut off the form tabs.

Here's a few pictures:
Attached Thumbnails
Help with XPS layout for small room-dsc07042.jpg   Help with XPS layout for small room-dsc07043.jpg   Help with XPS layout for small room-dsc07044.jpg   Help with XPS layout for small room-dsc07046.jpg  
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