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Old 08-02-2018, 05:27 PM   #1
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Enclosing 10x6 area


The architectural sketch shows the new wall location.

In the picture of the breezeway door, you can see that there is what I think a double 2x10 header above this door.

The breezeway steps down 2 steps from the house. The bottom step is 6Ē and the top step is 8Ē. Iím planning to raise the breezeway floor by 6Ē so I can insulate and have room for plumbing because we want to add a bathroom in part of the breezeway. This would make plumbing the toilet a lot easier as well.

Adding 6Ē to the floor of the breezeway would make the ceiling height the same as the rest of the house.

For reference, the breezeway door is 86Ē tall and the rest of the doors in the house are 80Ē.

The header above the breezeway door is supporting the trusses above so I do not want to touch that. When I build my new wall, it will not be supporting the entire roof but really only the section of the roof that I extend to match the garage(right side the roof line picture). Just thinking out loud here.

Iím guessing the outdoor patio is just a slab without a footing.

Do you think I need to cut the patio and dig and put a footing? Or can I just span double floor joists 119Ē across from the house and garage.

Thanks for any insight.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:34 PM   #2
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


Architectural plan


Current patio. New wall will be basically where the silver trash can is bringing the wall flush with the garage wall. Above the breezeway door is what I think is a double 2x10 header spanning the 10ft. The windows and doors have no structural frame.


Inside view above doors.


View into the breezeway into the house


2 steps up to the house from the breezeway.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:11 PM   #3
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


Did you have the trusses added over the breeze way, so you know how the header was structured. If not you need to do some digging on the outside to see what you have.
If you have one stud between the windows and doors you likely have a full length header but with those studs in the middle the header might be smaller than would be needed to span the distance on it's own.
Those trusses should have been made to be cantilever. To make them cantilever they often just add another stick above the wall in the truss so you could likely just move the wall. By adding a beam out at the end between the house and the garage.
Raising the floor 6" 10 ft would be a stretch.
So I think the start would be remove the siding above the door and windows and the soffit out there for a look see.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:27 PM   #4
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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Did you have the trusses added over the breeze way, so you know how the header was structured. If not you need to do some digging on the outside to see what you have.
If you have one stud between the windows and doors you likely have a full length header but with those studs in the middle the header might be smaller than would be needed to span the distance on it's own.
Those trusses should have been made to be cantilever. To make them cantilever they often just add another stick above the wall in the truss so you could likely just move the wall. By adding a beam out at the end between the house and the garage.
Raising the floor 6" 10 ft would be a stretch.
So I think the start would be remove the siding above the door and windows and the soffit out there for a look see.


There is no structural 2x4s or anything between the door and windows. Itís basically one 10ft wide window/door assembly. Itís not even secured to the bottom anymore. If I kick the bottom of the window area where it meets the concrete, then entire assembly just swings loose.

These are pictures in the attic above the breezeway door/breezeway. You can see how the trusses were modified.





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Old 08-02-2018, 06:49 PM   #5
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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Originally Posted by veeps View Post
There is no structural 2x4s or anything between the door and windows. Itís basically one 10ft wide window/door assembly. Itís not even secured to the bottom anymore. If I kick the bottom of the window area where it meets the concrete, then entire assembly just swings loose.

These are pictures in the attic above the breezeway door/breezeway. You can see how the trusses were modified.

That is neat up there, those are not trusses they are rafters.
Any chance you could get 2 2x10s 11 ft long up there?
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:52 PM   #6
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Enclosing 10x6 area


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That is neat up there, those are not trusses they are rafters.
Any chance you could get 2 2x10s 11 ft long up there?


But look on the left side.



Above the garage, both sides look like this. Are these just rafters with supports and 2x4 ceiling joists? I thought they were built in place trusses.

Look at the picture with the blue circle I drew as well in the previous post.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:56 PM   #7
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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Originally Posted by veeps View Post
But look on the left side.




Above the garage, both sides look like this. Are these just rafters with supports and 2x4 ceiling joists? I thought they were built in place trusses.

Look at the picture with the blue circle I drew as well in the previous post.
Bot isn't the pony wall in your first pictures above the doorway.
Can you see the top of the garage wall and the top of the house wall on each side of the breeze way.
Or I am confused
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:21 PM   #8
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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Bot isn't the pony wall in your first pictures above the doorway.
Can you see the top of the garage wall and the top of the house wall on each side of the breeze way.
Or I am confused


Yes the pony wall, if thatís the area I circled, is above the doorway. The other side of that is the garage and the other side is the house. I could only see the structure from the attic. The breezeway is finished and Iím trying to plan as much as possible before ripping into it.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:25 PM   #9
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


In this picture we can see the top of the garage wall I think, can you see the top of the house wall like this.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:54 PM   #10
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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In this picture we can see the top of the garage wall I think, can you see the top of the house wall like this.


I can. I donít have a good picture right now.

I just finished installing a blind header over the main section of the house.

Other side of this lvl is where you are asking me about.




Just like to share a couple pictures of how I installed, per engineer specification, the double 1.75Ēx14Ē 23foot long lvl.


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Old 08-02-2018, 08:06 PM   #11
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


Wow; all that is impressive, nice job, well done.
Yes , a couple 2x10s across the front of the nee wall would do it. Some more blocking on top of the walls to spread the load over more studs in those walls. You wouldn't need metal straps just make sure all that is there now is nailed good enough for hanging.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:16 PM   #12
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Enclosing 10x6 area


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
Wow; all that is impressive, nice job, well done.
Yes , a couple 2x10s across the front of the nee wall would do it. Some more blocking on top of the walls to spread the load over more studs in those walls. You wouldn't need metal straps just make sure all that is there now is nailed good enough for hanging.


Just got home and climbed up there to snap a picture of the other side. All you can see is the top plate which probably has the 2x10s under it already, going across above the door and windows.


My original question was do I need a footing where Iím putting the new wall, or can I span across the footing of the house and garage. The load of the existing roof is staying in the same place. The added load is the new wall with door, and the 2 feet of extended roof.

My fault for not being clear in my original question.

Last edited by veeps; 08-02-2018 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:31 PM   #13
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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Originally Posted by veeps View Post
Just got home and climbed up there to snap a picture of the other side. All you can see is the top plate which probably has the 2x10s under it already, going across above the door and windows.



My original question was do I need a footing where I’m putting the new wall, or can I span across the footing of the house and garage. The load of the existing roof is staying in the same place. The added load is the new wall with door, and the 2 feet of extended roof. You might do a double floor joist on the end under the door.
So is that electrical box sitting on the wall right where I wanted go?
Yes if you leave the header where it is the wall you build would be non bearing, the cantilever would still be doing all the work.
The existing header likely has a 2x4 under it so you can gain another 2"" by removing it and the door jam.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:57 PM   #14
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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So is that electrical box sitting on the wall right where I wanted go?
Yes if you leave the header where it is the wall you build would be non bearing, the cantilever would still be doing all the work.
The existing header likely has a 2x4 under it so you can gain another 2"" by removing it and the door jam.


If you mean where the wires are going into the wall, thatís my house wall. Iíll have to keep the 2x4 under the header because the jack stud is most likely under that 2x4.

I agree with you that the new wall wouldnít be a bearing wall. Iím hoping the inspector allows no footer under it, and lets me just hang my joists off the garage and house. Then I can just cut my patio flush with the new wall. I would rebar dowel and pour a small concrete curb to seal it and keep water and critters out.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:20 PM   #15
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Re: Enclosing 10x6 area


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If you mean where the wires are going into the wall, thatís my house wall. Iíll have to keep the 2x4 under the header because the jack stud is most likely under that 2x4.

I agree with you that the new wall wouldnít be a bearing wall. Iím hoping the inspector allows no footer under it, and lets me just hang my joists off the garage and house. Then I can just cut my patio flush with the new wall. I would rebar dowel and pour a small concrete curb to seal it and keep water and critters out.
Whether you were put a beam upstairs or leave the other one, you are building nothing more than a deck with a wall on it, So what you do below it would be up to you. A bit touchy with out frost protection.
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