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Old 07-26-2019, 12:16 PM   #31
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


So, peragula wise, I would like to to be the full width of the deck, but only 16ft out.
Looking at the picture I posted in my last reply, the third one shows it back to front. So the part of the paragula over the concrete slab would potentially be attached (or right up to) to two walls of the house (above where the windows and two doors are to the right).
Any problems with this?
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:59 PM   #32
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


Maybe to just do two total deep concrete footings 16ft out in the grass where the two beams of the paragula would go?
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:48 PM   #33
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


You could avoid the slab by connecting a pergola to the house, however it looks as though that would have some challenges. The soffit height is low, so you can't connect under it without blocking the bumpout window. Connecting in-plane with the house roof means you have to deal with the water runoff onto a pergola roof. They do make stilts to attach a pergola roof above an intact house roof, but the 2 story portion of the house messes that up.

So freestanding seems best. A 16' rafter span and 20' long beam to support those will be hefty, so to reduce the size would need more than 2 columns on the slab and 2 in the grass. Either 6 or 8 total columns, depending how you frame it.

People build decks and pergolas supported by old patio slabs all the time. We can only give advice - your house, your call.
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:04 PM   #34
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3onthetree View Post
You could avoid the slab by connecting a pergola to the house, however it looks as though that would have some challenges. The soffit height is low, so you can't connect under it without blocking the bumpout window. Connecting in-plane with the house roof means you have to deal with the water runoff onto a pergola roof. They do make stilts to attach a pergola roof above an intact house roof, but the 2 story portion of the house messes that up.

So freestanding seems best. A 16' rafter span and 20' long beam to support those will be hefty, so to reduce the size would need more than 2 columns on the slab and 2 in the grass. Either 6 or 8 total columns, depending how you frame it.

People build decks and pergolas supported by old patio slabs all the time. We can only give advice - your house, your call.
Alright, I'm back with a revised deck base design based on your suggestions.
See the picture attached.
-Yellow in picture shows where my house is.
-Lime green for where the doors to the deck are.
-Red circles are for the 6x6 ZMAX Galvanized Adjustable Post Base.
-Beams on grass will be on concrete precasts, that will be at least 10" dug down into the ground so that they will only be 1-2" above ground at the top.
-2x4's, 12" OC for joists.
-3 2x4's for the 4 beams that are parallel with the house. Each piece of the three has a 1/2" spacing that I will put shims into. Read only that it is best not to have them 100% touching so that the water can flow through better.

Anything wrong here, any advice?

Pergola wise, I thought of connecting it into the deck base 6x6 beams, but not connected to the house (ledger). Any problem with this?
Attached Thumbnails
Deck Design verification and questions-revisedwithadditionfootingsandpostbases-073119.jpg  
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:59 PM   #35
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


- The built-up (3) 2x4 beams are 3-ply because you have joists framing in on both sides. There should be no spacers causing a gap between them. The purpose of the 3-ply, besides giving more meat to attach to, is to resist the moment (rotating) that the joists make the beam want to do. With a spacer, that spacer and bolt/screw/nail is then relied on more for that which usually isn't sufficient. If you are worried about water sitting on top, put some sticky joist tape on it. The beam at the house and the end need only be 2-ply in your configuration.

- With little air space it would be best to dig out the grass and install some poly with gravel, that will reduce some of the heat from organics composting and moisture.

- The pergola probably won't fit under your soffit to connect to the first beam anyway, and the post layout will dictate whether you can attach to the middle ones. No need though, it's all "floating" anyway. If your pergola is braced properly above, it should be fine.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:16 PM   #36
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3onthetree View Post
- The built-up (3) 2x4 beams are 3-ply because you have joists framing in on both sides. There should be no spacers causing a gap between them. The purpose of the 3-ply, besides giving more meat to attach to, is to resist the moment (rotating) that the joists make the beam want to do. With a spacer, that spacer and bolt/screw/nail is then relied on more for that which usually isn't sufficient. If you are worried about water sitting on top, put some sticky joist tape on it. The beam at the house and the end need only be 2-ply in your configuration.

- With little air space it would be best to dig out the grass and install some poly with gravel, that will reduce some of the heat from organics composting and moisture.

- The pergola probably won't fit under your soffit to connect to the first beam anyway, and the post layout will dictate whether you can attach to the middle ones. No need though, it's all "floating" anyway. If your pergola is braced properly above, it should be fine.
Once again, awesome suggestions!

On the 3 build up, each is 1.5" wide and the post base is 5.5-6" wide. That leaves 1-1.5"'s of space between the wood and the screws coming in. How to fix?

Now, questions with pictures attached (question number matches picture number attached):
1) 1st picture shows the 2x4 from the pergola going down the the base deck. The 2x4's going vertical here are not going to be used as supports, but rather to hold and separate sections of a mosquito screen that I will be doing on all the open areas of the pergola walls.
Question is, what do I connect the 2x4's to on the deck base and with which brace, screw, etc?

2) For the horizontal sandwiched beams that I have, at some point they will need to connect to the 6x6 pergola posts. What do I need to use to connect them together (6x4 sandwiched beam horizontal deck beam to the 6x6 pergola vertical post; also to mention this will be on a prefab in the grass)?

3) What brace/material/screw (not sure what name to use) do I need to use to put two beams together?

4) The horizontal deck beams in the grass, I am not sure where to put the post bases. Please look at the 4th picture as the example, along with all the ones after so you can see how I did my post bases.

*I will upload in the next day my final (hopefully) design for the deck with all the changes inside.
I will then start a new thread for the pergola, as it seems it would be best to do the projects at the same time.
Attached Thumbnails
Deck Design verification and questions-2x4postswhattoconnectto.jpg   Deck Design verification and questions-beam2postproblem.jpg   Deck Design verification and questions-howtojointwosandwithedbeamstogether.jpg   Deck Design verification and questions-postbaseisitincorrectlocationforbeam.jpg   Deck Design verification and questions-fullpicproto1.jpg  

Deck Design verification and questions-fullpicproto2-topdown.jpg  
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:47 AM   #37
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


Ignore my last reply as I have taking out the patio cover part of this project and I will just focus on the decking for now.

On the 3 build up, each is 1.5" wide and the post base is 5.5-6" wide. That leaves 1-1.5"'s of space between the wood and the screws coming in. How to fix?

Now, questions relating to the first picture attached:
1) What brace/material/screw (not sure what name to use) do I need to use to put two beams together?

*Other pictures attached so the current deck base with the post bases in the places I assume they should go so it would be properly supported and so there should be no bounce. Please point out and let me know any other suggestions.
Attached Thumbnails
Deck Design verification and questions-howtojointwosandwithedbeamstogether.jpg   Deck Design verification and questions-deckproto1-stagebasedone-topview.png   Deck Design verification and questions-deckproto1-stagebasedone-backview.png   Deck Design verification and questions-deckproto1-stagebasedone-sideview.png   Deck Design verification and questions-deckproto1-stagebasedone-sideview2.png  

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Old 08-14-2019, 10:59 PM   #38
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


You can just add a block to fill the width of the post bracket, long enough to not split.

My opinion is you can just use coated exterior screws, as its just a 2x4 floating platform low to the ground.

Put the post brackets on the 20' length to fall at each joint (on the outer 3ply boards, not the inner sandwiched ply). So maybe split it in thirds, or at least 6' + 8' + 6' instead of the 8' + 8' + 4'.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:01 PM   #39
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Re: Deck Design verification and questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3onthetree View Post
You can just add a block to fill the width of the post bracket, long enough to not split.

My opinion is you can just use coated exterior screws, as its just a 2x4 floating platform low to the ground.

Put the post brackets on the 20' length to fall at each joint (on the outer 3ply boards, not the inner sandwiched ply). So maybe split it in thirds, or at least 6' + 8' + 6' instead of the 8' + 8' + 4'.
If I understand right, you mean to add about a 1/2"thick x 4"height x6"width piece of PT wood on each side of the 4x6 sandwiched beam to fill it in snug for the post base.

Using 2-2.5" deck screws for the deck, so will use longer ones for connecting the beams together.

On where you are saying to put the post brackets (my biggest problem at the moment as I cannot figure this out), where do I put them?
Attached is my revised (with the beams now being 6+8+6, not how it was before) top-down image, please advise.
Attached Thumbnails
Deck Design verification and questions-deck-topdown-clear-081519.jpg  
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