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Old 02-14-2010, 12:20 AM   #1
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Cracks on the patio slab


1) I have 3 of cracks in one side the patio. One is very minor and the crack is even... Both sides of the crack is even.
Here is the Pic.
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2130061.jpg
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2130059.jpg

How do I fix this ? Can I simply clean the area and apply mortar mix ?

2) This crack is big and the sides are not even. One side is higer than the other.. What should I be doing on this ?

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2130060.jpg

3) This looks like a gap between the cement and the glass door. I think I should be closing this.. How should I be working on this one ? Any help will be appreciated.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2130063.jpg
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2130062.jpg
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:36 AM   #2
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Unfortunately, there's not much you can do to cure those issues.

I would suggest cleaning the cracks & joint at the house well, install a "backerrod", & use a caulk/sealent specifically designed for concrete. That or just leave it alone.

It appears it was covered with some kind of carpet at some point, probably to solve this very asthetic issue.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:38 AM   #3
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So what is the end intention for you of fixing these cracks.


For:
1) Yes you could use a soft mortar or I would suggest more like a outdoor cement caulk or the black tar stuff.

2) Same as one, not much to do with the uneven level

3) This will likely cause water to trap

Bottom line is it looks like the patio wasn't placed and supported correctly and as the ground , house, patio all shift and change with temps you are causing heaving and cracks. I have seen this happen on a lot of home, and you can spend a lot of money trying to get it right (i.e. mudjacking or like). Last couple I have ran into it is easiest to just bust the patio out and do it right.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:44 PM   #4
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"For: 1) Yes you could use a soft mortar or I would suggest more like a outdoor cement caulk or the black tar stuff."

IMO, I would use a flexible caulk-type material made for such joints. I don't see how any mortar would stand the movement and not crack or fall out. I'd hate to see any "black tar stuff" on my patio.

One of the pros on-line can suggest a brand name and type to use. I can't remember what I used on my driveway apron where it meets the curb. I got it at HD near concrete supplies. It has been there two years without failure and I get a lot of freeze-thaw cycles and water runoff from the yard.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:57 PM   #5
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These cracks are an aesthetic issue, possibly a trip and fall hazard, and allow water to penetrate into the concrete, which will cause freeze/thaw deterioration of the concrete. As previously noted, the underlying problem is almost certainly an inadequately prepared base for the patio, meaning the soil underneath is compressible, or the fill brought in to support the concrete was not carefully selected and/or improperly compacted. As such, there is little you can do about the subbase, short of removing the patio and replacing the poor support soil with proper subbase.

However, if you are willing to live with annual maintenance, it is not too hard to fix the superficial problems. The Thoro Corporation makes a whole line of mortar and concrete patch mixes specifically designed for this type of problem (I have no personal stake in this company, other than I have used their products). Check them out, they have flexible mortar mixes, epoxy products, and bonding agents.

To fix the large crack, you need to grind it flat across the top, then patch with the proper mix. As noted previously, this is not a permanent fix, but should last a few years. For the small cracks, you can do the same, or use an elastic polybutlyl type of caulk with an approximate color match. Check out the Sika Corporation for a wide range of caulks and sealants. For the door gap, you need a flexible sealant specifically made for this application, butyl will work, silicone would probably do OK also, but check the Sika site for a wide range of options.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:57 AM   #6
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You will never get a complete fix on the cracks however as mentioned previously water will enter and continuously erode the soil under neath the slab.
What I would do is on the large crack use a concrete saw at a 45 deg angle and make a V groove all the way along it about an inch deep then use a high quality concrete epoxy patch after proper cleaning.

With the small cracks I would use a concrete caulk product to fill them in after blowing them out and cleaning.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
These cracks are an aesthetic issue, possibly a trip and fall hazard, and allow water to penetrate into the concrete, which will cause freeze/thaw deterioration of the concrete. As previously noted, the underlying problem is almost certainly an inadequately prepared base for the patio, meaning the soil underneath is compressible, or the fill brought in to support the concrete was not carefully selected and/or improperly compacted. As such, there is little you can do about the subbase, short of removing the patio and replacing the poor support soil with proper subbase.

However, if you are willing to live with annual maintenance, it is not too hard to fix the superficial problems. The Thoro Corporation makes a whole line of mortar and concrete patch mixes specifically designed for this type of problem (I have no personal stake in this company, other than I have used their products). Check them out, they have flexible mortar mixes, epoxy products, and bonding agents.



To fix the large crack, you need to grind it flat across the top, then patch with the proper mix. As noted previously, this is not a permanent fix, but should last a few years. For the small cracks, you can do the same, or use an elastic polybutlyl type of caulk with an approximate color match. Check out the Sika Corporation for a wide range of caulks and sealants. For the door gap, you need a flexible sealant specifically made for this application, butyl will work, silicone would probably do OK also, but check the Sika site for a wide range of options.
Thank you very much for the detailed response. It is happy to know the roor cause of the problem as well as some fixes, though not permanent.

I am sure it is expensive to rip off the whole patio and redo it..

The, about quick fixes, I was looking at the Sika site, I see some ditributors in our area but not very close to my place.. Can I get to see their products in Home depot or lowes or any other home improvement shops ?
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:20 AM   #8
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Sika products are high end, I have never seen them available at the big box stores, but they can be ordered on line. Thoro products are usually available at building supply stores, and you may be able to order Sika products from the same building supply store that sells Thoro products. The big box stores are going to have "equivalent" products, however I have no way of knowing how good they are, and I doubt the store clerks know either.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:37 AM   #9
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The Home Depot's around here actually do carry some Sika products, suprisingly.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
The Home Depot's around here actually do carry some Sika products, suprisingly.
Can you please put the link or pics of that prodcut so tha I can recognize then when I go to Home depot ?
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprao View Post
Can you please put the link or pics of that prodcut so tha I can recognize then when I go to Home depot ?

This is one that they may have that would work IF the patio is fairly level:

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Old 02-15-2010, 02:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
This is one that they may have that would work IF the patio is fairly level:

Ok. Thank you.. I will look into my local HD.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:50 AM   #13
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what you call cracks're actually ' working ' as joints,,, chase 'em w/diamond blade, install backer rod, & seal w/sonneborn/sika mtl as noted above,,, the MAIN reason conc randomly crks is a poor jointing pattern/timing/depth when it was originally placed
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprao View Post
Ok. Thank you.. I will look into my local HD.
Local Home Depot suggessted the following three products based on the problem..

1) Rapidset is for fixing Drywall/plaster patches
2) Sika product is for gaps NOT for cracks
3) QUIKRETE is for cracks

Here are the pics:
All 3 products :http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2180088.jpg

Quikrete: http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2180089.jpg
Sika : http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/P2180090.jpg
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:15 AM   #15
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apron stores also carry 100% silicone in tubes,,, we seal hgwy jnts w/that stuff rather'n sika,,, use the sika sl or ns ( self-leveling / non-sag ) over backer rod,,, READ how to do it, too,,, depth:width ratio's very important - do it wrong & you'll cause mtl failure,,, cleanliness is prime consideration,,, is using ns, you must ' tool ' the jnt/crk !
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