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 DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum Correcting an out of square foundation?
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04-30-2018, 11:55 PM   #16
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Here is how I would proceed:

Pick out your two straightest, most parallel walls. On one of these walls, make tic marks one foot from each end. Then measure this distance. Now what you do is calculate a diagonal length based on these two numbers. Say the parallel walls are 22' apart, and the distance between your tic marks is 18. Using the Pythagorean theorem, you get a diagonal of 582.44. So hold the dumb end of a tape on one of your tic marks, and where 582.44 interesects the other wall, make another mark. Repeat on the other end. You'll wind up with 4 tic marks which are marking the corners of a rectangle with square corners. Now you can use these as reference points to decide where to place the plates on the end wall. As long as you stay an equal distance from these reference points, measuring along the parallel wall, you will be square.

Now, I'm of the opinion that you could just frame it up as it is and it would be fine. It's been my experience that using trusses is not an exact science. You try to get them as plumb and as straight as you can, but they are usually a long way from perfect. Where it would bite you might be sheathing; you might have to cut a sheet or two or add a scab to the truss chord. IMO

05-01-2018, 10:49 AM   #17
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

@Gregsoldtruck79 Thanks for the sketch, that was my understanding from de-nagorg's previous post, but the sketch clarifies it. It sounds like you and @Nealtw are saying the same thing.
I understand how to lay that out, and how it would result in a square building. I've drawn it up in my plans (attached), and you can see that I can make the left and right walls 2" longer and they will cover the foundation. They are already parallel to each other, and will be where my trusses sit.
Because I have my overhead door on the bottom (gable end) and a man door at the top (gable end), they will somewhat hide the ledge. Is there anything else I can do to hide it visually on the outside?

Structurally, if I implement it like that, what do I do about the 2" overhang in the top left and bottom right corner of my diagram? I can see how 2x6 sill plates would be necessary, but less than half of my 2x4 framing would sit over the foundation. 2" of the 3.5" stud would be pressing down on a 2x6 that isn't supported underneath. I assume that wouldn't pass inspection. I guess I just have to frame up those two end walls using 2x6 studs?

Thank you all so much for taking the time to help me with this.
Attached Thumbnails

05-01-2018, 11:03 AM   #18
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Entropy @Gregsoldtruck79 Thanks for the sketch, that was my understanding from de-nagorg's previous post, but the sketch clarifies it. It sounds like you and @Nealtw are saying the same thing. I understand how to lay that out, and how it would result in a square building. I've drawn it up in my plans (attached), and you can see that I can make the left and right walls 2" longer and they will cover the foundation. They are already parallel to each other, and will be where my trusses sit. Because I have my overhead door on the bottom (gable end) and a man door at the top (gable end), they will somewhat hide the ledge. Is there anything else I can do to hide it visually on the outside? Structurally, if I implement it like that, what do I do about the 2" overhang in the top left and bottom right corner of my diagram? I can see how 2x6 sill plates would be necessary, but less than half of my 2x4 framing would sit over the foundation. 2" of the 3.5" stud would be pressing down on a 2x6 that isn't supported underneath. I assume that wouldn't pass inspection. I guess I just have to frame up those two end walls using 2x6 studs? Thank you all so much for taking the time to help me with this.
Sounds more like 1 inch front and 1 inch back. that would be fine for 2x4 wall. Changing the front to 2x6 is just a handful of studs anyway.
Or you could build the back wall out of square that would only show up in the overhang and you could actually fix that too by just adjusting the length of you 2x4s for that.

05-04-2018, 07:58 AM   #19
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

One of the walls also bows out by .5-.75 inches and crowns up in the middle by .75". Do I just cut studs to custom lengths to flatten the crown and overhang the whole wall an extra 0.5" to cover the bowing?

05-04-2018, 08:32 AM   #20
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Entropy One of the walls also bows out by .5-.75 inches and crowns up in the middle by .75". Do I just cut studs to custom lengths to flatten the crown and overhang the whole wall an extra 0.5" to cover the bowing?
I would. You do NOT want to transfer a hump in wall all the way up to the roof line. Major mess to straighten out later, if it even could be.
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05-04-2018, 09:20 AM   #21
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Entropy One of the walls also bows out by .5-.75 inches and crowns up in the middle by .75". Do I just cut studs to custom lengths to flatten the crown and overhang the whole wall an extra 0.5" to cover the bowing?
Too bad you paid these clowns already.
What a mess.

As mentioned, different length studs for sure.
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05-04-2018, 09:31 AM   #22
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

More work, and harder, but a person could get 4X4 for a new bottom plate mount and scribe it to be level, then use a band saw to trim off the 4X4 to be level, and bolt/ construction adhesive, it to the block.

And recreate a level, surface to build on.

No matter what you do making this mess a decent place to build on is going to be an annoyance.

I wish you best of luck and patience.

And tell your friends that this mason is a poor craftsman.

ED

05-04-2018, 09:44 AM   #23
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Yes, I will not be recommending this mason to others. I have actually only paid him the first half of the money so far. He hasn't responded to my emails about how he's going to fix these issues. I assume he can't, which is why I've been asking you fine folks.

Additionally, he forgot the j-bolts at the sill plate breaks and didn't fill any of the rebar cavities with concrete, so the top row of blocks currently has almost no tension or shear strength. The inspector somehow signed off on that.

Other walls have smaller humps in them, how big can they be before I should worry about cutting studs?

05-04-2018, 11:18 AM   #24
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Entropy Yes, I will not be recommending this mason to others. I have actually only paid him the first half of the money so far. He hasn't responded to my emails about how he's going to fix these issues. I assume he can't, which is why I've been asking you fine folks. Additionally, he forgot the j-bolts at the sill plate breaks and didn't fill any of the rebar cavities with concrete, so the top row of blocks currently has almost no tension or shear strength. The inspector somehow signed off on that. Other walls have smaller humps in them, how big can they be before I should worry about cutting studs?
Don't pay him anything, but watch out. He can lien your house.

I'd say 1/8" - 3/16" would be unnoticeable.
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05-04-2018, 03:44 PM   #25
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by 123pugsy Don't pay him anything, but watch out. He can lien your house. I'd say 1/8" - 3/16" would be unnoticeable.
He replied to my email today saying that he put in the j-bolts today and the square/level/plumb things are only cosmetic issues and kindly requesting that I remit payment so his company doesn't have to put a lien on my house.

05-04-2018, 04:03 PM   #26
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

I disagree, Square/ level/ and plumb, is necessary to build on.

You are being bullied by him now.

Fight back.

ED

P. S. The tower of PISA was built on a sub standard base, and look at where it is now.

Been restructured several times over the years and still leans.

Last edited by de-nagorg; 05-04-2018 at 04:07 PM. Reason: add ps

05-04-2018, 04:53 PM   #27
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Call your lawyer immediately.
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05-04-2018, 05:07 PM   #28
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

What complicates this mess, is that the inspector...passed it. The very same OUT the mason will use to defend his position to get paid.
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05-04-2018, 05:20 PM   #29
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gregsoldtruck79 What complicates this mess, is that the inspector...passed it. The very same OUT the mason will use to defend his position to get paid.
Hah, you guys are like prophets. To directly quote the email I received
"The inspector passed the block wall after it was cured therefore it's good to build on! What you pointed out is cosmetics and not structural issues. The cosmetics of the foubdation will no longer exist once its built on. Many of the individual blocks are not perfectly square themselves and that comes with the job and uncontrollable by contractors.... Let me know when payment has been submitted so the concrete company does not file a lean against your property for non payment."
emphasis mine

I don't know what the legal requirements are for a foundation, so I have no idea what the legal recourse is for either of us. I hope we can come to an agreement.

05-04-2018, 05:45 PM   #30
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## Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Entropy Hah, you guys are like prophets. To directly quote the email I received "The inspector passed the block wall after it was cured therefore it's good to build on! What you pointed out is cosmetics and not structural issues. The cosmetics of the foubdation will no longer exist once its built on. Many of the individual blocks are not perfectly square themselves and that comes with the job and uncontrollable by contractors.... Let me know when payment has been submitted so the concrete company does not file a lean against your property for non payment." emphasis mine I don't know what the legal requirements are for a foundation, so I have no idea what the legal recourse is for either of us. I hope we can come to an agreement.
If someone is going to take the time to type out a nastygram to you ENT, at least they should spell lien correctly.
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