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Old 04-29-2018, 12:50 PM   #1
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Correcting an out of square foundation?


My 22'x22' detached garage foundation was blocked up and poured, but the diagonals are 2.75" different. I measured each wall and 2 are exactly 22', one is 1/8" short, one is 1/4" short, so it must be diamond shaped. The diagonals are 30' 11.75" and 31' 2.5".

Is this a normal variation, or just bad concrete work? Seems too far off to me.

How can I fix this when laying out the sill and framing the walls?
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:07 PM   #2
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Bad block laying. Not earth shattering as it happens. Just make sure your sill plate is square and installed solidly. That way your building is square.
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:27 PM   #3
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Like Chandlar says, not earth shattering. If you are using trusses, it's nice to have parallel walls, though those can be fudged too. If you are using architectural shingles on the roof, than you can get away with murder up there; steel roof, not so much. I have framed on a foundation that was 2" narrower on one end. No fun, and a lot of work, but we got there in the end and the end product turned out great.
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Old 04-29-2018, 08:00 PM   #4
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Thanks guys. I've got 12/12 trusses with a 12" overhang and 1/2" OSB roof sheathing and architectural shingles. My walls are 7/16" OSB and then double-lap vinyl siding.

My last course of block is only 4" wide, with 2x4 framing, can you give me any advice for squaring up the sills with a diamond shaped foundation?
If I cheated in the "long" corners by 3/4" and cheated out the short corners by 3/4", I imagine it would be square. With the OSB panels I'd be almost out to flush, then I'd have vinyl siding on top of that. Is that enough to overcome any worries about water running onto the block and into the garage?

My other concern there is that that the J-bolts will be very close to the sides of my 2x4s as I get near the corner. Those last J-bolts will be about 1" from the edge of the wood. Not sure if that is enough?
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:18 PM   #5
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Center the 2X4 on the block, and adjust until you get it square, then bolt it down.

Use wider plates on the bolts that will cover more wood than just washers.

You can make slotted holes in the wood to allow it to slide a bit to get square, before tightening any bolt.

And use a rubber membrane under the wood on top of the block to keep water out.



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Old 04-29-2018, 09:24 PM   #6
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


You have two wall that trusses land on, What are the measure out side to outside are they One each end.
Are they front and back or side to side?
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:04 PM   #7
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


So you have 12" overhangs on the gables too? Are you going to just run the sheathing wild, cut it and add a fly rafter? I actually think when all said and done, the out of squareness isn't going to be noticeable. Have you tried laying a framing square in the corner to get a visual of how out of whack it really is? Might mess with you setting trusses, especially if you are going to be building lookouts. but in terms of how it looks, and whether you can notice it in the soffit corners or whatever, it might surprise you. I guess what I'm saying is that if you can fix it with your plates, great, but don't mess up your foundation to correct something that won't actually be noticeable in the end product.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:32 PM   #8
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Thanks for the tips de-nagorg, that mostly makes sense to me.
@Nealtw My two eaves are the sides, the garage door is gable end. The two eaves are 22' and 21' 11.75". The two gables are 22' and 21' 11-7/8" The lengths are not the issue, just that the building is diamond shaped and I'm worried that it will make framing/sheathing/roofing difficult.
@Marson I have 12" overhangs on all sides. I'm going to get drop-end trusses for the gables and just run lookouts to support the fly rafter. I'm not so much worried about the out-of-squareness being visible, more that it will make it hard to put the trusses and roof on.

I'm not experienced with framing. I felt like I understood what to do if things were reasonably square, but I didn't really know how to fix it if the foundation wasn't.
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Old 04-29-2018, 11:56 PM   #9
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
Thanks for the tips de-nagorg, that mostly makes sense to me.
@Nealtw My two eaves are the sides, the garage door is gable end. The two eaves are 22' and 21' 11.75". The two gables are 22' and 21' 11-7/8" The lengths are not the issue, just that the building is diamond shaped and I'm worried that it will make framing/sheathing/roofing difficult.
@Marson I have 12" overhangs on all sides. I'm going to get drop-end trusses for the gables and just run lookouts to support the fly rafter. I'm not so much worried about the out-of-squareness being visible, more that it will make it hard to put the trusses and roof on.

I'm not experienced with framing. I felt like I understood what to do if things were reasonably square, but I didn't really know how to fix it if the foundation wasn't.
So now you want to know if the front or he back or both ore the bad ones.
one the twenty foot side from the back corner measure out 15 feet on the back ball and market there.
If the back wall is square to that side that mark will be 25 Ft from the front corner.
That is the 3,4,5 method of checking square.
Have the checked each side with a string to see that the walls are straight?
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:23 AM   #10
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


On top of foundation, framing starts with wall sill plates. You can square the building with the sill plates. You need a chalkline. Red is easier to see. Start with entrance wall. Check it's straight. It's ok if it is not dead straight. 1/4" bow in or out isn't a problem, although disappointing work on the masonry.
Now about your plan. Wall sheathing is usually 1/2". Were you planning to have the sheathing sit on the foundation or overlap it? If sheathing sits on the foundation, sill would be 1/2" inside of the foundation, etc.
Strike your line for the sill. You get your side sill lines from this. If you don't know, search for getting square line based on 3-4-5 method. This can be also 6-8-10. Start with the line 1/2" in from the first line and adjust your side line with a square. Then check this line with 3-4-5 and adjust for square. Then check your foundation and see if how out of square your side walls are.
Your sill can be overhanging the foundation by 1" but I'd call that about the max. You can use 2x6 sills to cover the sins if plan was 2x4 wall, eg. You can add trim to the outside wall base to cover some of the differences. If foundation is exposed, flash and add trim.
Not that familiar with truss but first ask or search if bearing area for the truss is important. Truss is engineered so I assume it has bearing points and you can't change that too much. I don't think your diagnal number is going to give you too much trouble.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:32 PM   #11
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Nealtw,
None of the corners are square. I haven't checked all the walls with a string line yet. The one I checked was bowed out 0.25-0.5" in the middle. I made a sketch of the foundation. If I made the left and right walls 2" longer (as shown by the grey line), then I could make a square sill that fully covers the foundation, but the sill plate would overhang the foundation by 2" in the top-left and 2.25" in the bottom-right corners.
I tried putting this in as an image, but it just didn't show up.
Foundation Sketch

carpdad,
I was going to have my sheathing slightly overlap the foundation. My foundation is block that sticks up above my slab though. I'm not sure what I'd snap a line on. The sill plates will sit on the concrete blocks, but if I square it up and snap a line on top of the concrete block, I'd end up with half the line being in the air and not on top of the block?

Could I just frame this up out of square and then shift the trusses a little so that they are square but my soffits become narrower as you move along a wall?

Last edited by Entropy; 04-30-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:05 PM   #12
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Start back at the basics and lay out what we call a stringed batter board layout to get your plates down on out of square block walls. The batter "strings" give you the exact outer dimensions of the building you need, provides straight lines to take your plate measurements from = straight and square walls, the same dimensions from front to back, for trusses to sit on.

My method will only be as good as your patience and accuracy laying it out and getting the plates to barely touch the strings on the outside of them. See if my sketch makes any sense. JMO
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:21 PM   #13
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Greg: That would be the beginning of what I suggested earlier, Great way to start.

Glad that we have similar thought processes.

If OP has patience enough this will work great.

This also gives them measurements to know where to provide the bolt holes on their bottom plate, to make the slotted holes to slip over the existing J bolts they mentioned.

They might have to use a 2X6 as the bottom plates, then frame it with 2X4 studs, but it will work great.



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Old 04-30-2018, 06:45 PM   #14
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


Batter boards are sure way to mark the lines you want with strings. Always better if you can see the lines.
For initial check, you can stretch the caulkline across the foundations. Example, you want your sill edge to be flush with foundation edge. So stretch your line inside of the sill. You have to keep the sill width in mind.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:10 PM   #15
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Re: Correcting an out of square foundation?


[QUOTE=Entropy;5441090]Nealtw,
QUOTE]
How much more will it cost to change to 2x6 studs. Then you could plan on the walls being proud of the foundation both inside and outside.
You can pull straight square strings like the foundation guy could have done.
You make the two truss bearing wall parallel with each other and square off the long end of both.
This would make the building a couple inches to long.
You are planning the fix already with out knowing it. You said you are doing the flying overhang where you put a 2x4 out every 2 ft. That is what you do when you end up with over 24" OC on one end.
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