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Old 03-08-2013, 09:03 AM   #1
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Confused about ledger bolts and ledgerloc screws.


Are galv 5/8" lag screws w/ washer still required or can I use the new ledgerloc or grkfastners screws w/ the built-in washers instead?

Also, when setting up the doubled-up joists around a chimney, how far away from the chimney brick should I be so that I can get the hanger in place on the ledger and be able to nail it in (or do I screw the hanger in)?

Mucho thanks!
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:08 AM   #2
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I'd stick with the 5/8 bolts.
Any wood has to be at least 2" from the chimmney.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:12 AM   #3
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Depends on what code requires where you live. Call your local building/permit office and ask them. I have worked in at least one place where neither lag bolts nor ledgerlocs were legal - ledger boards had to be through-bolted.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
I'd stick with the 5/8 bolts.
Any wood has to be at least 2" from the chimmney.
If the joist is only 2" from the chimney brick, how do you nail in the hanger? It doesn't seem like you could hammer in the last few nails on the hanger because of the narrow space.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:43 AM   #5
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Move it far enough away to screw in the hanger. He said a minimum of two inches, not a maximum.

Most people don't get the ledger board/deck situation that's why they collapse so often, and why they are now inspected ad nauseum.

The loads applied to the deck, both dead and live loads, are transferred to the fastening units, and then to the top surface area of same. Consider the top surface area of a No. 12 screw, or a nail, then consider the surface area of a 5/8 inch diameter bolt. The friction between the band joist, and the ledger board are difficult to determine so they are questionable.

A deck I recently built to take 100lbs/sq foot live load required 5/8 inch through bolts at 12 inches on center, to give you some idea. When I asked my structural engineer why I needed so many, he responded with what I use as my signature. I saw a guy buying 1/4 inch lag bolts in HD to build his deck. I tried to tell him they would not work. He told me I was crazy. I told him to have a nice day, and I hope his deck was relatively close to the ground, considering 32 feet/second squared.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Move it far enough away to screw in the hanger. He said a minimum of two inches, not a maximum.

Most people don't get the ledger board/deck situation that's why they collapse so often, and why they are now inspected ad nauseum.

The loads applied to the deck, both dead and live loads, are transferred to the fastening units, and then to the top surface area of same. Consider the top surface area of a No. 12 screw, or a nail, then consider the surface area of a 5/8 inch diameter bolt. The friction between the band joist, and the ledger board are difficult to determine so they are questionable.

A deck I recently built to take 100lbs/sq foot live load required 5/8 inch through bolts at 12 inches on center, to give you some idea. When I asked my structural engineer why I needed so many, he responded with what I use as my signature. I saw a guy buying 1/4 inch lag bolts in HD to build his deck. I tried to tell him they would not work. He told me I was crazy. I told him to have a nice day, and I hope his deck was relatively close to the ground, considering 32 feet/second squared.
I called my local inspectors a few minutes ago. I was surprised they actually answered......instead of the typical voicemail. They indicated that only the 5/8" carriage bolts can be used. They also indicated that the ledger can be offset as long as I maintain the required minimum of 2.5" from any board edge. So for a 2x10, that is as much as 5.5" offset which includes the 5/8" hole.

So, I have 2 final questions:

1.) When using 2x10 joist hangers, do most folks nail or screw the hangers?
2.) I inquired about the ledger offset because the original deck had a step down of about 4" from inside the house. However, the new deck will be much larger. It will all be one level and span almost the whole length of the house. I also plan to put a shed-style roof on it. So, is it better to keep the 4" step-down or make the deck even with the house floor for a smoother transition from inside to outside.

You guys have been great!
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:47 AM   #7
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Hanger like Simpsons are supposed to be attached with the special nails designed for them. I've never heard of joist hanger screws, but I suppose they could exist.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:30 AM   #8
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simpson makes them, their right along side the joist hanger nails in most bigbox stores

http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...-loadrated.asp
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #9
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If you use Simpson hardware, it is important that you actually read the instructions in their on manual. The required number and type of fasteners, as well as acceptable alternative fasteners, are listed for each type of hanger. Unfortunately many times installers fail to read the directions, and end up using the wrong number or type of fastener, since the allowable alternatives are typically listed in a footnote in small print on the hanger page.

Also, many big box stores sell a short version of the typical 10d nail used for the hangers (marked with a "d" on the head), which is intended for use perpendicular to the joist only. These nails are often sold in large buckets right next to the hangers, so people mistakenly think the nails are acceptable for use with the hangers, when often they are not, as you need standard length (3 inch) 10d nails for the diagonal nails if you use a hanger that requires diagonal nails (most of them do).
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #10
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This is what I mean about local yokel inspectors.

The only reason that I can think of for requiring carriage bolts is because carriage bolts are threaded all the way up to the head, and they are trying to keep some noob from bottoming a bolt on the shank and thinking the bolt is tight when it is not. The fact is that to attach the ledger board you want to have a large thick flat washer under the bolt head that cuts into the wood the thickness of the washer. That how you get the maximum load distribution on the wood. You cant do that with a carriage bolt. That's how a split ring connector works.

I use regular hex head bolts and assemble decks with a 1/2 inch pneumatic impact wrench. Thank god the local inspectors here had only half a labotamy.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
This is what I mean about local yokel inspectors.

The only reason that I can think of for requiring carriage bolts is because carriage bolts are threaded all the way up to the head, and they are trying to keep some noob from bottoming a bolt on the shank and thinking the bolt is tight when it is not.
Some carriage bolts have full threads, some have shanks. What makes a carriage bolt a carriage bolt is the head, not the threads. I think this is more a case of someone confusing the terms, either the inspector or the poster. I suspect what was intended was to specify that lag screws were not acceptable, not that the through bols had to have a certain head style.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:42 PM   #12
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Spax Tstar washer heads for ledger & don't use drywall or handy screws on hangers they are too brittle they will break. Hanger nails are best IMO.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk View Post
simpson makes them, their right along side the joist hanger nails in most bigbox stores
Not at my local Home Depot they're not. The nails is all they have.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
Not at my local Home Depot they're not. The nails is all they have.
You can try hangers for LVL's I think they are a little wider ( 1 3/4" or 1 7/8")
OR I know the large Menards can order them .
OR Go to a contractors supply yard.
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