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Old 04-04-2016, 12:17 AM   #16
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


Blocking will help stabilize. If the code office did not give you any info on requirements for earthquake proofing, they should have. You can always take a trip to the local real lumber yard and find out what Simpson brackets and bolts that are needed for this.

Strengthening the whole structure, will help quiet down on the bounce noise you get when people walk around. But in turn, it can turn the whole unit into a drum and cause it to become concentrated, because it is too stiff. Also you have to keep in mind that there has to be a little give for the house to move when you get high winds or an Earthquake.



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Old 04-04-2016, 12:25 AM   #17
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


The pic is what i did today. I'm going to repeat on the other end and also on a partition foundation wall that runs same direction. The shear walls are pretty extensive, even in a center interior wall to help limit shaking in a quake. This is a granny unit on our lot. My main house is 100 yr's old and has survived many quakes so I'm always thinking its about the nails....lol...have you seen the nails used back thenand the old growth wood too.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:23 AM   #18
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
To me, those pressed OSB timbers may be made differently to hold up for the 10-15 years of expected lifespan of the building, before it starts to really fall apart.
Wow, is that really how long your codes expect the structure of a house to last? Here, the structure, and hard to access or replace elements, must last at least 50 years.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:01 AM   #19
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


Sounds as if you are "winging" it.... good way to get in trouble. Read the engineered floor joist (not truss) plans (one with City/county, one for designer, one for builder, and another copy for framer) as said, each one is a little different per manufacturer. Your specific floor plan (layout) was designed by an engineer, or designer, don't follow another manufacturers layout, even if the same brand. Every house is different. All the rims meet APA standards, but some plans require an I-joist at the side walls (with a ply/OSB filler to break sheathing on) and some accept OSB, plywood, LVL or other for the rim. These can span a 48" opening or less, with restrictions; https://www.apawood.org/Data/Sites/1...--rimboard.pdf

Pros would install the farthest rim on the house side- from lumber drop, lay the I-joists (check for square cut from yard) on bearings flat, then cut (joists at break) and excess length using a caulk line from each end spaced-in for the rim thickness +, stand them and nail them, then final rim. Very fast, this after adding the required hold-down solid blocking around the threaded rods. Your last joist should have been spaced 16" from the solid rim and shear floor/wall blocking ( Yours are missing-- required on the plans) added first- some require more than 16" from exterior rim.... How do you plan on insulating the rim now, or letting the Inspector compare your floor framing/supports-concrete piers, posts, connectors, etc. per plans... same reason you wouldn't add blue board to the joist bottoms before "floor" inspection (or before mechanical are run- hope for no outside wall plumbing)... bad idea. Glue the tops of joists AND glue in the groove of sheathing for better floor., ease the decking down on the glue, not let it fall - spreading glue thin. get the required end panel gap, nail the sheet while standing in the center area for full contact. Blocking may be required under any shear walls above (including interior), check the plans.

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Old 04-06-2016, 12:29 AM   #20
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


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Originally Posted by PandJ View Post
Here is what I am doing. I don't think need to but the ijoist blocked to rim joist should add strength. I did see on the pdf info where blocking was used on the last i joist and rim for strength. The i joist sits a bit on the sill also.

Thoughts? Big bolts are for hold downs to framing here in CA

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/sh...hare_link_copy
Those little blocks are not enough. your engineering should tell you how far back you must block perpendicular to the last joist and rim band. Typically you have to have blocks every 4' o.c. and it will call out 16"-2'(1 to 3 joist bays back) depending on the amount of shear transfer they want.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:32 AM   #21
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in WA View Post
Sounds as if you are "winging" it.... good way to get in trouble. Read the engineered floor joist (not truss) plans (one with City/county, one for designer, one for builder, and another copy for framer) as said, each one is a little different per manufacturer. Your specific floor plan (layout) was designed by an engineer, or designer, don't follow another manufacturers layout, even if the same brand. Every house is different. All the rims meet APA standards, but some plans require an I-joist at the side walls (with a ply/OSB filler to break sheathing on) and some accept OSB, plywood, LVL or other for the rim. These can span a 48" opening or less, with restrictions; https://www.apawood.org/Data/Sites/1...--rimboard.pdf

Pros would install the farthest rim on the house side- from lumber drop, lay the I-joists (check for square cut from yard) on bearings flat, then cut (joists at break) and excess length using a caulk line from each end spaced-in for the rim thickness +, stand them and nail them, then final rim. Very fast, this after adding the required hold-down solid blocking around the threaded rods. Your last joist should have been spaced 16" from the solid rim and shear floor/wall blocking ( Yours are missing-- required on the plans) added first- some require more than 16" from exterior rim.... How do you plan on insulating the rim now, or letting the Inspector compare your floor framing/supports-concrete piers, posts, connectors, etc. per plans... same reason you wouldn't add blue board to the joist bottoms before "floor" inspection (or before mechanical are run- hope for no outside wall plumbing)... bad idea. Glue the tops of joists AND glue in the groove of sheathing for better floor., ease the decking down on the glue, not let it fall - spreading glue thin. get the required end panel gap, nail the sheet while standing in the center area for full contact. Blocking may be required under any shear walls above (including interior), check the plans.

Gary
Gary, thanks for detailed response! May seem like winging it but not so much. I've read mfg details, plans, took blue print reading course and own every framing book. Is this my first time building a house? Yes but I'm working very hard to do this right and asking plenty of questions. Your response was what I need from this site. I can easily move the joist out that is next to rim joist, with next being 16" OC from the rim so not an issue.
The blocking for the shear below subfoor is NOT on plans nor cited anywhere on mfg site that I can find. I'll search for hold down details and see if any framing info. If you can explain just this detail a bit further that would be helpful.

It's just wood and can be fixed. It's why I'm doing this to learn. I even have a spare I joist if needed. All plan details and schedules are being followed. The CA framing stuff is a bit confusing though. I'm never afraid to fail....but work hard not to!

Last edited by PandJ; 04-06-2016 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:22 AM   #22
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


Gary in WA - Sorry but there is no blocking below subfloor that you suggested. There is additional wall blocking that is part of the wall assembly and that is spec'd on plans. The hold downs attach at this point. Please provide an example of if you meant below subfloor as it is not noted any where that I can find.

Thanks!
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:33 AM   #23
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


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Originally Posted by Mingledtrash View Post
Those little blocks are not enough. your engineering should tell you how far back you must block perpendicular to the last joist and rim band. Typically you have to have blocks every 4' o.c. and it will call out 16"-2'(1 to 3 joist bays back) depending on the amount of shear transfer they want.
Mingledtrash.....hmm...not spec'd on plans. This is a very small granny unit so that may be why it's not spec'd or needed. I'm going to swing by the planning dept tomorrow and discuss. I'm going to remove that small blocked joist tomorrow also just to keep it 16 oc as spec'd. Easy to remove. I'm working on porch decking right now but no questions there . Been there done that.

I'll be posting my sub rough plumbing in coming days.....should be fun for all lol
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:13 AM   #24
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


ok, i had read this code so thought ok to pair up over the parallel foundation wall. So as Mingle suggest, I'll shore up the blocking. Its for a 4x4 that will sit at that point up to ceiling. It's dead center of a 20 ft building width so no way to miss later. I will glue in a filler piece between the two blocks currently there. There will be a sink drain coming through the gap at a different point so need the space.



R502.4 Joists under bearing partitions. Joists under parallel bearing partitions shall be of adequate size to support the load. Double joists, sized to adequately support the load, that are separated to permit the installation of piping or vents shall be full depth solid blocked with lumber not less than 2 inches (51 mm) in nominal thickness spaced not more than 4 feet (1219 mm) on center. Bearing partitions perpendicular to joists shall not be offset from supporting girders, walls or partitions more than the joist depth unless such joists are of sufficient size to carry the additional load.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:46 AM   #25
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


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Wow, is that really how long your codes expect the structure of a house to last? Here, the structure, and hard to access or replace elements, must last at least 50 years.
It has nothing to do with codes. It has to do with cheap building practices.

Since the builders got cheaper on not properly framing a structure anymore. When the go ip in 4-6 months and everything is cheap, even in the more expensive ones they tend to ho cheap in some areas.

You are lucky if by 10 years, that the house starts falling apart.

I have seen brand new ones that fall apart in 6 months, in nice neighborhoods in my area.



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Old 04-07-2016, 09:29 AM   #26
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


Last thing I did had the initial I joist siting on the plate all the way from one end to another the but back from the edge the width of the rim board. Ends were cut also short the width of rim board. Rim board was then just nailed on all the way around. But I did it that way because that is what the design from the mfgr's. Called for.(also fun two guys, one elderly, getting a double I joist 16" deep and 24' long in place in a double hanger....with of course requirements calling for a 24' two bye twelve nailed to the INSIDE of each jpist comprising the double. Really heavy.). Ron
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:01 PM   #27
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


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Last thing I did had the initial I joist siting on the plate all the way from one end to another the but back from the edge the width of the rim board. Ends were cut also short the width of rim board. Rim board was then just nailed on all the way around. But I did it that way because that is what the design from the mfgr's. Called for.(also fun two guys, one elderly, getting a double I joist 16" deep and 24' long in place in a double hanger....with of course requirements calling for a 24' two bye twelve nailed to the INSIDE of each jpist comprising the double. Really heavy.). Ron
the double joist are definitely spec'd under load walls and also where there are points of load. What you did is what I was leaning towards but it would not be possible due to hold down bolts. I've learned alot and plan on learning more. I am someone who will do it better than spec'd if I can and not look to cut corners. Building dep was totally fien with what I did, just more than needed. I'm ok with that.

Thanks for sharing Ron
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:48 PM   #28
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Re: Can mfg Rim Joist serve as end Joist?


Here is the 90mph floor requirements for solid blocking under bearing OR shear walls, pp 10, and floor diaphragm shear wall blocking at first 4' from rim, pp 11; http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standar...WG90B-0610.pdf Your wind speed area may require closer shear panel nailing...

Here is engineered floor requirements; F5- lateral load transfer, F9- blocking at interior bearing wall line, F10- squash blocks, F11 squash blocks at concentrated loads; http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standar...WG90B-0610.pdf Read your manufacturer name on the I's, and find the install guide on-line... way better than getting so many answers from the DIY'ers here. Another brand I've installed, page 3; http://cmfac.groups.et.byu.net/tharm...ng%20guide.pdf

Here are code requirements for the wall sheathing (this should be on your plans...); http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...5.htm?bu2=unde cruise around there, everything there is minimum code...lol.

Strapping and blocking tips for better floor; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...5jdMYg&cad=rja

Glue the groove as well and let the sheet down gently- save the glue bead on the joists for better adhesion rather than "SPLAT" the panel with foot down as so many inexperienced framers (and most DIY'ers) do; http://www.apawood.org/buildertips/pdfs/Q300.pdf Get a set of plans from the county/city if you don't have a copy... that is what your BI will compare the framing to.

Gary
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