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Old 10-19-2009, 01:24 PM   #16
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1.3.5. Limited Application to Existing Buildings
1.3.5.1. Alterations and Repairs
"1) This Code applies to the part of an existing building that is altered and repaired.
If, in the opinion of the authority having jurisdiction, the alteration will affect the degree
of safety of a part of the existing building not altered or repaired, those parts of the existing
building shall be improved as required by the authority having jurisdiction.
2) If a building is altered or repaired, the level of life safety and building performance
shall not be decreased." From: http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/regs/pdf/b093-127.06.pdf

Ask your local Building Department, as I said earlier. Better to be safe than sorry.....
Be safe, Gary
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:05 PM   #17
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Water vapours have always confused me.

So, in this example, youd...
1. affix the blue styrofoam boards to the cement. do you use tapcoms, or glue it?
2. Plastic sheets, aka vapour barriers, over the styrofoam.
3. Pink insulation stuff over the plasic
4. then frame. again, would you use tapcoms to get to the cement wall/foundation?

Thanks!!
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:13 PM   #18
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Depends...the OP is in a cold zone where vapour barriers go on the warm side of the insulation. So:

1: yes, stick the foam with glue or use uprights and tapcons. Tape the joints.
2. then the other insulation - but here it'll be messy.
3. then free-standing stud wall, not attached to cement but to floor and ceiling joists.
4. then the plastic vb
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:28 PM   #19
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whats step 2, the messy insulation?
Never thought of the free standing wall stud ...Do you use an L bracket to attach the 2x4 to the floor, or another tapcom?

Im in MTL too. NDG to be exact. Maybe one day you can help me out if Im in a jam..lol

So you have suggested the vapour barrier (plastic) last. So, I would screw the drywall over the plastic?

and in a north eastern climate such as ours (Quebec, Canada), youd always want to put the vapour barrier (plastic) last, as a final shield?

Thanks!

Last edited by sbmfj; 10-19-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:53 PM   #20
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hello from Pointe-Claire...

Here's the deal. It just looks to me that the OP has the bare minumum code for insulation and that meant blown in fibreglass surrounded like a diaper by the plastic sheet which holds everything in with tape. Now as soon as you take off the tape you'll have a mess of pieces of fibreglass at your feet...

If she wants to put more styrofoam, she'll have to take off the plastic thereby releasing all the fibreglass pieces to the ground - what a mess!
And all stud walls in the basement mustn't touch the concrete or they'll transmit the cold through them, So they're attached to the floor with tapcons and throught the joists at the top with nails/screws. Put a layer of pink styrofoam rolls under all wood touching concrete.

The vb is last, stapled to the studs and taped everywhere...drywall goes over that into the studs.

Drywall/plastic vb/studs/insulation/concrete up here in that order from the inside of the room.

PM me anytime for help.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
hello from Pointe-Claire...

Here's the deal. It just looks to me that the OP has the bare minumum code for insulation and that meant blown in fibreglass surrounded like a diaper by the plastic sheet which holds everything in with tape. Now as soon as you take off the tape you'll have a mess of pieces of fibreglass at your feet...

If she wants to put more styrofoam, she'll have to take off the plastic thereby releasing all the fibreglass pieces to the ground - what a mess!
And all stud walls in the basement mustn't touch the concrete or they'll transmit the cold through them, So they're attached to the floor with tapcons and throught the joists at the top with nails/screws. Put a layer of pink styrofoam rolls under all wood touching concrete.

The vb is last, stapled to the studs and taped everywhere...drywall goes over that into the studs.

Drywall/plastic vb/studs/insulation/concrete up here in that order from the inside of the room.

PM me anytime for help.

I actually did a test last night and cut open the diaper, the insulation under it is not blown in, it is solid pink insulation so it won't be as messy as I thought.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:57 PM   #22
 
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i personally never have tested vapor emissions that would come through a poured concrete wall, but has anyone ever done a calcium chloride test?
I wouldn't think that it would be that bad, with proper exterior damp proofing + -usually- foam insulation on the exterior? (which doesn't sound like the case here)
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:25 PM   #23
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Have you looked into having it sprayed with foam? that would solve all of your problems in one foul swoop!
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:28 PM   #24
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Phew! Thanks Chaotic for putting me straight...I looked and looked and all I saw was... fibreglass! So OK then, my eyesight is poor.

Good then it won't be a mess.

Flip, my eyesight is really bad now I can't even find the picture! LOL
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
Egress - from, for example, basements - is one area where fire codes enter into the Buildiing Code mess, to make existing differences between all the codes even more muddy.

And remember the IRC was only adopted in the early 2000's I think and I have no information form the OP as to when her house was actually built and therefore which code it was built under.

If the OP's house is in the province of Ontario, then that means "egress" was even less relevant - as the Canadian IRC doesn't put as much emphasis on egress as you in the US do. To say nothing of fire codes...

Having said that, my house in Montreal was built in 1960 and one window in the basement is exactly at 44"; not all - but at least that one.


Just wanted to clarify a few things for any Canadians reading your statements about code. The site I stated has the Building Codes of Canada for free to download. Turns out, they are the exact same codes we use here in the States.What a hoot! This condensed cheat book, called Code Check Building is valuable for the minimum safety standards required. http://rapidlibrary.com/index.php?q=...code+of+canada

Page 22 of the booklet has all egress codes for doors, decks, guardrails, bedroom egress, bedroom window sizes, and basement egress, not muddy at all. They are really handy to have, but you need to download them to see them. Remember this is an earlier book, the most recent one may have stricter changes and your local Providence may have addition ones.
Be safe, Gary
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:58 AM   #26
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Thanks for those links, Gary...
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:55 AM   #27
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thanks for the explanations!!
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
hello from Pointe-Claire...

Here's the deal. It just looks to me that the OP has the bare minumum code for insulation and that meant blown in fibreglass surrounded like a diaper by the plastic sheet which holds everything in with tape. Now as soon as you take off the tape you'll have a mess of pieces of fibreglass at your feet...

If she wants to put more styrofoam, she'll have to take off the plastic thereby releasing all the fibreglass pieces to the ground - what a mess!
And all stud walls in the basement mustn't touch the concrete or they'll transmit the cold through them, So they're attached to the floor with tapcons and throught the joists at the top with nails/screws. Put a layer of pink styrofoam rolls under all wood touching concrete.

The vb is last, stapled to the studs and taped everywhere...drywall goes over that into the studs.

Drywall/plastic vb/studs/insulation/concrete up here in that order from the inside of the room.

PM me anytime for help.
Hi ccarlisle, that was an excellent post and by coincidence I am in the exact same situation as the OP.

I just wanted to quickly clarify your explanation above.

Order of tasks to finish framing:
1. Take off the VB from the existing insulation
2. Leave existing insulation as is - what would hold it up (after I have taken off the VB)- assuming the existing VB is holding it up?
3. Add more insulation to fill up the bottom portion
4. Install frame against the insulation - how close to it can the studs be? pushing against it closely? Please be specific.
5. Install wiring
6. Install VB
7. Drywall

One last question regarding the tapcons - I guess this means I just need to get the appropriate carbide drill and don't need to rent one of the nailer guns - that shoot nails into concrete? That would be awesome if I didn't have to. What size of bit and nail do you recommend?

Have I missed anything?

Here's the thread I started with tons of pics and a plan I drew up in Visio - http://www.diychatroom.com/f19/not-r...me-tips-54470/

Last edited by silvergs; 10-21-2009 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:19 PM   #29
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I wanted to bump this thread up in the hopes that ccarlise will see it.
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:00 PM   #30
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Well, I can tell you what I like to do in new basements: 2" of styrofoam board glued to the concrete wall, taped and foamed into place. Then a stud wall tapconned into the floor and screwed into the ceiling joists; at this time run the wiring. Then either pink or Roxul insulation between the studs. That's it. No vb... then gyproc.

Now in the case of the OP, you have that pink fibreglass in the way. Sure it's minimum code but it'll just get in the way, so remove it. They only need that plastic diaper vb becasue there is no foam thermal break on the walls...it's one or the other: thermal break OR vb.
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