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Old 04-23-2015, 10:06 PM   #1
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Beam support connectors help


Hi all

I am replacing a load bearing wall with a beam and three posts. The attached picture shows the end of the beam that is against a concrete wall. I want to support this end with (2) 2x6s anchored right into the wall. I don't have the option to cut the concrete block wall to support the beam.

Any help you guys can provide with respect to how to attach the beam to the post in a way that would pass inspection would be most appreciated.

Built up Beam = (3) 9.25 x 1.75 LVLs (total width = 5.25")
Joists = 2x8s
Load on this support = 3600#

Note that my supplier put me in touch with USP who designed, then sold me a connector that is:
a) way over engineered (37000# allowable),
b) cannot be installed due to bolt holes that will be hidden by joist ends,
c) insanely expensive
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Beam support connectors help-beam_support.jpg  

Last edited by BobsDiy; 04-23-2015 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:27 AM   #2
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If you anchor the post to the wall and the beam is anchored laterally by the floor joists then I'm not sure you need a connector. When you sized the beam did you get an engineer involved to size it? He would be the one to spec the connector.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:35 AM   #3
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The photo is a little hard to interpret. It looks like you have a 2x4 post close to the wall. Is that a temporary post intended to be removed after you make the wall connection? Or do you plan to replace the wooden post with a steel lally column?

In any case, if your engineer failed to provide a constructable solution, as you state, it should be a simple matter to go back to the engineer and have them detail a constructable solution. If it is your intent to support 3600 lbs on a bracket connected to the concrete, that would require some engineering, as that is a fair amount of load. I expect your building inspector will want to see the detail of the connection, and some calculations demonstrating that it is strong enough, before signing off. Unfortunately no one on an internet chat forum can supply the detail and the calculations, that would be the job of your engineer. Best of luck.
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:59 AM   #4
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Don't do this diy.

You're suggesting replacing the job of continuous foundation/footing (which are interlocking and reinforced) with 2 2x6. I am not sure about the hanger (?) that was engineered for your situation. But it does not "feel" right. The connector (bolt, anchor, etc) would have to be set in concrete, at least.

2x6 will shrink and will be squeezed, and it is possible that at some time, your girder may become floating held in place only by anchors in thin skin of the blocks.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:15 AM   #5
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It is hard to get a good picture because there are temp walls on each side of this beam supporting the second floor (live, dead, no roof load). I uploaded a pic showing what is temporary. The 2x4 holding the beam is ONLY holding the beam in place - nothing is attached to the beam. Temp walls are still holding up the second floor.

Carpdad - you raise a very good point about the shrinking 2x6s if bolted into the concrete block. Thanks for that insight. Was trying to minimize the "unbraced height" of the built up 2x6 column.

There is support for the system - steel W8x18 in the basement directly under this beam. I am just changing the load on that beam from distributed to point but those point loads are above the current W8x18 supports so no real change there.

County says I do not need an engineer for this job but maybe I just have to bite the bullet.

Love to avoid that though. If anyone has seen this type of connection done in a way that passed inspection. Then I can update my building permit drawings and see what the county says.

Also attached a picture of a Simpson Strong Tie LCE4 connector. Something like this work?
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Beam support connectors help-beam_support.jpg  
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Last edited by BobsDiy; 04-24-2015 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:29 AM   #6
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Ayuh,.... I ain't a certified engineer, but am a master re-engineer,....

I'd turn yer support 2x6s 90,....
I'd use 3 2x6s directly under the 3, 2x10s, 'n 2 more 2x6s slightly longer to pick up the 2x8s above on the sides new big beam,...

That way, Gravity will hold it all together,....
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Ayuh,.... I ain't a certified engineer, but am a master re-engineer,....

I'd turn yer support 2x6s 90,....
I'd use 3 2x6s directly under the 3, 2x10s, 'n 2 more 2x6s slightly longer to pick up the 2x8s above on the sides new big beam,...

That way, Gravity will hold it all together,....
Turning the 2x6's by 90 degrees drastically cuts the allowable capacity due to buckling about the unbraced axis. You'd be better off at this point with a metal post.

This all could been rendered moot if you had simply used a beam pocket. Why wasn't that an option? That would have been the easier, cleaner install.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:21 PM   #8
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I'm in a townhouse and this is the shared wall with neighbor. I'm not sure if there is one layer of cbw or two. I knew answers would raise that so I was looking for alternatives that didn't involve cutting the wall, possible HOA involvement, etc.
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:02 PM   #9
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http://www.tigerbrandjackpost.com/ad...e-columns.html

order one of these sized for your application for about $75, delivery is about 2 weeks, 4 concrete anchors, 4 lag screws,

Are we sure about the footing and not just setting this on 4" of concrete floor?
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Old 04-25-2015, 02:24 AM   #10
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If it was me...I'd be using a 6x6 post with a Simpson cap.

But, I would also be getting input from an engineer. And if you are in California, it MUST have engineering due to seismic effects.

What about the point loading below it? Is the foundation designed for it?
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Old 04-25-2015, 12:54 PM   #11
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I assumed that was a basement. As long as you are SURE about the capacity of the steel beam underneath, I think the steel post idea is the best. You need to find out what size steel post. 4" round was engineered for basement i-beam reinforcement I needed for 2 story with a roof, but that is my case. The floor and sub floor should be cut out so the post can sit directly on the beam.

Cutting a pocket change the fire stop nature of this wall?
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:43 PM   #12
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If this is an HOA, you should double check your agreement. Typically the boiler plate language in an HOA requires structural changes to be approved by the HOA.
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:01 PM   #13
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Well, here is the update. I decided to go with 6x6
Douglas Fir No.1 (though it seems borderline No.2 after I got it delivered).

My intent is to finish them and leave them exposed, sticking out 1.5" from the stud/drywall wall. Can always cover or veneer if I don't like how they look.

Using Simpson Strong Tie ACE6 on the end near wall (shown but not fastened) and AC6 for the intermediate post caps (two piece connectors). Again, visible 2x4s in the one picture are temporary supports to be removed.

For the joists, above the posts, going to install top flange hangers. The joists will also have a wall below so hopefully this will pass inspection. If not, I'll deal with it at that time. I gotta move on.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Bob
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