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Old 08-21-2019, 09:22 AM   #16
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


Also ask your consultant check on the use of GeoFoam for you drive base.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:22 AM   #17
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Do you mean that you don't know if I could locate any? Or do you mean that if I used it, my house would sink?


Are you acting as the contractor on this property?
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:59 AM   #18
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
The house foundation will definitely have reinforcement. As for the driveway, I hadn't decided yet, but now I will sure to have reinforcement there as well.

But since the water table here gets so high, I was worried about the ability to compact it or anything on top of it. But I suppose I'll take the advice of the soil engineer and the fact that there 100s of other houses already built in this location as evidence that it will be okay.

The foundation won't be on gravel. It will be on compacted subsoil. The home foundation and driveway will not be poured at the same time.
OK you really need to think this one through.

If you put a nice concrete driveway to the site then months later run concrete trucks over that to the house site to pour a foundation that driveway is gonna have more cracks than a NFL shower room after a big game.

What you need to do is just bring in the gravel trucks and put in ton after ton of gravel followed by compaction to build the driveway to the house site. Then LEAVE IT gravel until the house is constructed.

Dry dirt is about 5% water. damp dirt around 10-15. Saturated dirt like you showed in the picture is probably 50% water. You cannot "compact" water. Gravel and dirt compaction is intended to get the air out of the material so that heavier loads on it won't compress the air out of it. Gas like air is compressible. But water is not.

Dirt is absorbent, gravel is not. If you take a bucket of gravel with holes in the bottom and pour water into it the water runs out the bottom. Do that with dirt and the dirt will absorb the water and plug up the holes. Sand acts like gravel just slower.

Water will seek the water table level so if you have compacted dirt that goes under the water table level the dirt will absorb water and start liquifying like pudding mix. Once it finishes absorbing water it turns to mud and it will start flowing. Gravel will not do that.

The ROC product mentioned is what I was saying when I said that there are also other quarry products such as gravel mixed with lime that when used will lock together in the presence of water. ROC is a term used for "crush and run" which is basically what comes out of the crusher when you throw scrap concrete into it. It's a mixture of rock and concrete dust, aggregate rock, and sand. ROC is that plus limestone. "Crush and run" is available all over the country by a whole host of different names but it's all the same stuff.

If you want the house foundation to be stable on the soil you have, you need to put down gravel not try compacting saturated dirt. You can certainly try looking into some of the products like the polymers and foams and such for a base on the driveway because if it doesn't work and it cracks it won't matter. Another way of building a driveway would be to throw crush and run on top of your gravel and compact it then asphalt on that.
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:28 AM   #19
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Originally Posted by tmittelstaedt View Post
OK you really need to think this one through.

If you put a nice concrete driveway to the site then months later run concrete trucks over that to the house site to pour a foundation that driveway is gonna have more cracks than a NFL shower room after a big game.

What you need to do is just bring in the gravel trucks and put in ton after ton of gravel followed by compaction to build the driveway to the house site. Then LEAVE IT gravel until the house is constructed.

Dry dirt is about 5% water. damp dirt around 10-15. Saturated dirt like you showed in the picture is probably 50% water. You cannot "compact" water. Gravel and dirt compaction is intended to get the air out of the material so that heavier loads on it won't compress the air out of it. Gas like air is compressible. But water is not.

Dirt is absorbent, gravel is not. If you take a bucket of gravel with holes in the bottom and pour water into it the water runs out the bottom. Do that with dirt and the dirt will absorb the water and plug up the holes. Sand acts like gravel just slower.

Water will seek the water table level so if you have compacted dirt that goes under the water table level the dirt will absorb water and start liquifying like pudding mix. Once it finishes absorbing water it turns to mud and it will start flowing. Gravel will not do that.

The ROC product mentioned is what I was saying when I said that there are also other quarry products such as gravel mixed with lime that when used will lock together in the presence of water. ROC is a term used for "crush and run" which is basically what comes out of the crusher when you throw scrap concrete into it. It's a mixture of rock and concrete dust, aggregate rock, and sand. ROC is that plus limestone. "Crush and run" is available all over the country by a whole host of different names but it's all the same stuff.

If you want the house foundation to be stable on the soil you have, you need to put down gravel not try compacting saturated dirt. You can certainly try looking into some of the products like the polymers and foams and such for a base on the driveway because if it doesn't work and it cracks it won't matter. Another way of building a driveway would be to throw crush and run on top of your gravel and compact it then asphalt on that.
I do agree with the above method for the drive . Also the ROC I referenced was the quarried Limestone that is used in the Rotary Kiln that burns the Limestone to make cement. You need to purchase it be fore it gets to the kiln.(ROC)
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:56 AM   #20
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Old 08-23-2019, 09:03 AM   #21
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Old 08-23-2019, 04:37 PM   #22
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Originally Posted by ClarenceBauer View Post
I do agree with the above method for the drive . Also the ROC I referenced was the quarried Limestone that is used in the Rotary Kiln that burns the Limestone to make cement. You need to purchase it be fore it gets to the kiln.(ROC)
I think a lot of quarries sell the stuff with gravel and aggregate already mixed with the limestone. One of my customers sells this they call it "STB" (Special Treated Blend) theirs is grey, while a quarry up the street sells it and their stuff is more yellow and they call it something else. In looking up ROC it appears to be the same stuff.

One of the keys of using this stuff is to give it time to settle and self-compact. Last year the local elementary school made a running path with this - all they did was dump gravel down and crush and run on top of that - no compaction at all. I was quite interested to see what would happen since hardly anyone ever walked on the path - it was powdery after it went down you could dig it out with your fingers - but after a year of rain it is hard enough now that you would have to use a pickaxe to dig it up.

If I was the OP I'd put down compacted gravel on the driveway then this stuff and then let all the trucks drive over it - after a year and the house and grounds are finished I'll bet that he might even be able to get away with 4 inches of unreinforced concrete as long as they aren't parking on it. (it will still crack, though, which is why I said look at asphalt, it's a bit more flexible)

As for the foundation - yeesh! There would be no such thing as too thick of concrete on that one. Sure hope his wife doesn't want to relocate a first floor toilet after they move in!
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Old 08-23-2019, 04:44 PM   #23
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
What _is_ it with people wanting to use backhoes for everything? Get a dozer, dude!

It's like the guy with the leaf blower on full blast chasing 1 leaf 50 feet down the sidewalk....
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:00 AM   #24
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


The soil/fill guys said to wait for it to be dry.

I'm guessing they know the area and materials better than folks on the Internet.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:50 PM   #25
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


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The soil/fill guys said to wait for it to be dry.

I'm guessing they know the area and materials better than folks on the Internet.
First rule of being a smart-mouth, READ what you diss BEFORE dissing it:

OP: "...I have had grading companies say they want to wait for the area to dry...."

Me: "...much better to follow the advice of the grading companies...."

Yep, smart-mouths always think they are being clever - until they trip up like you just did and then look foolish

You are also "a folk on the Internet", Holmes. <eyeroll>
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:13 PM   #26
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Re: Add fill on top of groundwater?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittelstaedt View Post
First rule of being a smart-mouth, READ what you diss BEFORE dissing it:

OP: "...I have had grading companies say they want to wait for the area to dry...."

Me: "...much better to follow the advice of the grading companies...."

Yep, smart-mouths always think they are being clever - until they trip up like you just did and then look foolish

You are also "a folk on the Internet", Holmes. <eyeroll>
Gosh - can't figure where you thought I was dissing you. But that's fine.

My comment simply boiled down to follow the advice of the locals - as you indicated.

And yup - everything you read in response to any posting is from "folks on the internet."

Why should I feel foolish for agreeing with you?

And how is that being a smartmouth?

One of us might have a problem if two simple statements sets them off.

Sorry you were having such a bad day.
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