Would Adding An Outlet Destroy Grandfathering? - Electrical - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:35 PM   #16
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You're amazed that someone would suggest replacing a pump that leaks enough current to trip a GFCI?
A reputable company designed it that way.
It works adequately and does no harm. (as long as I avoid stepping in the sewage sump while it is running, I don't see how it could do any harm)

You would spend $1,000 to replace it? Yeah, that is absolutely amazing.
But it is great that you know more about pump design than Liberty.
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:42 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
A reputable company designed it that way.
It works adequately and does no harm. (as long as I avoid stepping in the sewage sump while it is running, I don't see how it could do any harm)

You would spend $1,000 to replace it? Yeah, that is absolutely amazing.
But it is great that you know more about pump design than Liberty.
It's not the pump design I'm concerned with. It's the leaking electric motor that drives the pump that i take issue with. If it trips a GFCI, it is faulty no matter who designed it. It's amazing you can't comprehend that. It isn't necessary for you to see how harm can be done in order for harm to be done. That is why GFCIs exist to begin with.
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Toller View Post

You would spend $1,000 to replace it? .
How big is this pump ?




I read in your post what could happen. Not like your getting in the pit or anything.


Well I might leave it too BUT. think about it. You don't have to get into the pit. You or a plumber or anyone else could be on their knees testing the pump or float or anything in relation to that LIBERTY pump and pit and potentially something ?could? Happen..


Uppa to you
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:18 PM   #19
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If it trips a GFCI, it is faulty no matter who designed it. It's amazing you can't comprehend that. It isn't necessary for you to see how harm can be done in order for harm to be done. That is why GFCIs exist to begin with.
I am sure Liberty has sold tens of thousands of pumps that they recommend not to be installed on GFCIs; and they have all been used for many years. Find an injury. Find a lawsuit.

I have to think you are just goofing on me here. I asked about whether I could change a grandfathered outlet, and got a couple answers (thanks...); my own fault for getting engaged about nonsense.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:22 PM   #20
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I have a sewage pump plugged into a single outlet. Back in 2005 that met code.
Funny thing is, NO it didn't.

As Inphase implied, the GFI omission exception was for large appliances that occupied the space in front of the receptacle. A sump pump never was exempt from the unfinished basement GFI requirement.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:26 PM   #21
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Didn't you ask the same question about a month ago?
Nope, just had the idea today. Do a search if you have nothing better to do.

But thanks for taking the time to respond; too bad you didn't even try to answer the question.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:37 PM   #22
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I have a sewage pump plugged into a single outlet. Back in 2005 that met code. I am adding an alarm, but have nowhere to plug it in. The building inspector is okay with my changing the outlet to a duplex and plugging both in there, but I am concerned that someone buying the house won't like it.
I'm not sure what the problem is here. You can add an alarm anywhere. Do a run of low voltage wire for the sensor, or use a wireless sensor/alarm. Why mess with line voltage, grandfathering, and code when you don't really have to?
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:45 PM   #23
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Nope, just had the idea today. Do a search if you have nothing better to do.

But thanks for taking the time to respond; too bad you didn't even try to answer the question.
Just seems strange that two sewage pumps came up recently with the same caveat that they would trip a gfi and both posters did not like the answers they were given.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:57 PM   #24
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I am sure Liberty has sold tens of thousands of pumps that they recommend not to be installed on GFCIs; and they have all been used for many years. Find an injury. Find a lawsuit.

I have to think you are just goofing on me here. I asked about whether I could change a grandfathered outlet, and got a couple answers (thanks...); my own fault for getting engaged about nonsense.
Yeah and lots of reputable companies sold asbestos, and Phen phen, and DDT, and CFCs. I'm trying to warn you before the injury or the lawsuit. Personally, I don't care if you do anything about it or not. I don't care if you remove the brakes from your car. I'm simply stating the FACT that a device that trips a GFCI circuit is faulty. It's either faulty from damage or faulty from design, either way it's faulty. You trying to argue against that FACT is ridiculous.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:20 PM   #25
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Nope, just had the idea today. Do a search if you have nothing better to do.

But thanks for taking the time to respond; too bad you didn't even try to answer the question.
As sad as it is, I happen to have the time, and THIS THREAD is eerily similar. It's creepy. Even down to the poster's name. I figured the forum software wouldn't allow two users to have the same name, but, just like with GFCIs, apparently I'm wrong. Jim and I both had the same wrong recollection. I'll be jiggered.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:30 PM   #26
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Funny thing is, NO it didn't.

As Inphase implied, the GFI omission exception was for large appliances that occupied the space in front of the receptacle. A sump pump never was exempt from the unfinished basement GFI requirement.
http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/nec-re...errupters-gfci
So Mike Holt is wrong

http://www.necconnect.org/resources/gfcis/
As is NEC Connect

http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/200...ci-protection/
And the IAEI

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/sump-...ircuit-110058/
http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/do-i-...sement-104878/
Not the least, our own Jim Port!

And of course many jurisdictions, including the entire state of Oregon, specifically exclude sewage and sump pumps from having to be on GFCIs.

Are you really that ignorant or do you just enjoy misleading people?
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
As sad as it is, I happen to have the time, and THIS THREAD is eerily similar. It's creepy. Even down to the poster's name. I figured the forum software wouldn't allow two users to have the same name, but, just like with GFCIs, apparently I'm wrong. Jim and I both had the same wrong recollection. I'll be jiggered.
I don't know what jiggered means, but if it has to do with an inability to read, then yeah.
Never asked anything remotely like "would adding an outlet destroy grandfathering".

Last edited by Toller; 09-16-2015 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:34 PM   #28
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I'm not sure what the problem is here. You can add an alarm anywhere. Do a run of low voltage wire for the sensor, or use a wireless sensor/alarm. Why mess with line voltage, grandfathering, and code when you don't really have to?
I already have the alarm, but I will see if I can extend the wire for the sensor. Thanks.
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:04 AM   #29
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I'm not to proud to admit when I am wrong, and I was here. I totally forgot about the exception for sump pumps. That was included in the NEC years ago, but has been removed for quite a while. The part Jim was referring to was about large appliances that occupy the space in front of the receptacle as I referred to.
If you know of a local amendment, such as Oregon, feel free to post it as well so you can further you're feeling of self worth.

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Are you really that ignorant or do you just enjoy misleading people?
Are you really this much of an a$$hole, or do you enjoy being a jerk to those trying to help you?
Either way, I'm done. Good luck with whatever you're working on. It seems you'll need it.
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:11 AM   #30
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I don't know what jiggered means, but if it has to do with an inability to read, then yeah.
Never asked anything remotely like "would adding an outlet destroy grandfathering".
I didn't say you did. Listen Troller, I couldn't give a wood nickel what you do with your pump, alarm, outlet, or grandfather. All I'm saying here, and in that other non-existent thread about virtually the same subject, is that an electric apparatus that is meant to be submerged in even your waste should not leak enough current to trip a GFCI. Whether some do or not is a different matter entirely.
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