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Old 12-21-2017, 08:19 PM   #16
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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Originally Posted by Shadow99 View Post
26-746(1) and (3) . I've always interpreted as they are considered as one appliance.

If you've passed inspection with separate circuits, I may be off in left field!
Think that's talking about a situation where only one or the other can
be used at one time and this is controlled by DPDT switch. The CE
handbook makes it clearer. It's really to allow the best use of an
outdated service and wiring that wouldn't be allowed for new installation.

As for inspections, these were part of much bigger jobs and the inspectors didn't ask about the details of each loads wiring.

Correctly or not my approach with loads like this (high wattage,
direct wire) is to look at the manufactures recommendations rather
than the code. Their instructions usually say something like dedicated
40A cct, sometimes with wire size and OCD details.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:44 PM   #17
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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Which code article is that?
If the appliance doesn't require a neutral, the white can be reidentified as an ungrounded conductor.
See 200.7

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How would you wire it to get the 120 without a neutral?
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:53 PM   #18
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


Thank you all for your replies, much appreciated. I just remembered the old saying: RTFM! I found some useful stuff in there, such as that my "cooktop can consume up to 7700 W at 240 VAC. A 40 Amp circuit breaker with wire gauge #8 AWG must be used."

I don't know what I was thinking but I approchaed this with an assumption that the built-in oven will actually draw more power than the cooktop, and that is *not* the case. The oven's manual says that "a single wall oven can consume up to 4100 W at 240 VAC. A 30 Amp circuit breaker with wire gauge at least #10 AWG must be used."

There. So my new approach will be to reuse existing 40 Amp 8/3 circuit for the cooktop and run a new circuit for the wall oven. But here is my new dilemma. The existing wire run is not long enough to reach to the location of the cooktop if I rerouted it. Is it OK to install a junction box in the attic and extend the run to the cooktop?
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:53 PM   #19
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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Is it OK to install a junction box in the attic and extend the run to the cooktop?
Yes. Attics are considered accessible.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:55 PM   #20
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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How would you wire it to get the 120 without a neutral?
You make a good point, rjniles, because I assumed the cooktop is a 240v unit.
In my 20 years experience I've never seen a 120v cooktop, hence my assumption.


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Old 12-21-2017, 09:57 PM   #21
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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Originally Posted by bodek View Post
Thank you all for your replies, much appreciated. I just remembered the old saying: RTFM! I found some useful stuff in there, such as that my "cooktop can consume up to 7700 W at 240 VAC. A 40 Amp circuit breaker with wire gauge #8 AWG must be used."

I don't know what I was thinking but I approchaed this with an assumption that the built-in oven will actually draw more power than the cooktop, and that is *not* the case. The oven's manual says that "a single wall oven can consume up to 4100 W at 240 VAC. A 30 Amp circuit breaker with wire gauge at least #10 AWG must be used."

There. So my new approach will be to reuse existing 40 Amp 8/3 circuit for the cooktop and run a new circuit for the wall oven. But here is my new dilemma. The existing wire run is not long enough to reach to the location of the cooktop if I rerouted it. Is it OK to install a junction box in the attic and extend the run to the cooktop?
Yes, RT*M. Frequent source of confusion cleared.

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Old 12-22-2017, 07:04 AM   #22
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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You make a good point, rjniles, because I assumed the cooktop is a 240v unit.
In my 20 years experience I've never seen a 120v cooktop, hence my assumption.


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All I was suggesting is the poster verify that the cook top does not need 120 before he went ahead with the wiring. Newer appliances tend to have features that require the 120 in addition to the 240.
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:51 AM   #23
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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All I was suggesting is the poster verify that the cook top does not need 120 before he went ahead with the wiring. Newer appliances tend to have features that require the 120 in addition to the 240.
I think you are correct, it says in there "install the junction box under the cabinet and run 120/240 or 120/208 volt AC wire from the main circuit panel."

Am I OK then with my existing romex 8/3 wire? Is it safe to assume that it is wired in the right way at the circuit panel? What should I be looking for to confirm?
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:24 AM   #24
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


It also says in the manual "A 3-wire or 4-wire single-phase 120/240 or 120/208 volt, 60 Hz Ac-only electrical supply is required on a separate circuit fused on both sides of then line (time-delay fuse or circuit breaker is recommended). DO NOT fuse neutral. The fuse size must not exceed the circuit rating of the appliance specified on the name plate."

- what does it mean "circuit fused on both sides?"
- am I OK with the existing 40 amp breaker?
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:59 AM   #25
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


If you cable is 8/3 plus a ground it is acceptable. A 120/240 circuit requires a 3 wire cable plus ground.

Fused both sides means the 2 hot conductors required over current protection.
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:36 AM   #26
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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Originally Posted by bodek View Post
It also says in the manual "A 3-wire or 4-wire single-phase 120/240 or 120/208 volt, 60 Hz Ac-only electrical supply is required on a separate circuit fused on both sides of then line (time-delay fuse or circuit breaker is recommended). DO NOT fuse neutral. The fuse size must not exceed the circuit rating of the appliance specified on the name plate."

- what does it mean "circuit fused on both sides?"
- am I OK with the existing 40 amp breaker?
3 wire being acceptable implies it does not need a neutral

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Old 12-22-2017, 02:24 PM   #27
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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3 wire being acceptable implies it does not need a neutral

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No it means if you have an old 3 wire circuit using Type SE cable ( 2 hots and a neutral) you can reuse it in place. 3 wire for new circuits is not compliant.

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Old 12-22-2017, 02:58 PM   #28
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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No it means if you have an old 3 wire circuit using Type SE cable ( 2 hots and a neutral) you can reuse it in place. 3 wire for new circuits is not compliant.

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Look at 200.7.
240v circuits that do not require a nuetral can be energized from a two wire cable as long as the white wire is reidentified

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Old 12-22-2017, 03:40 PM   #29
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


You require a neutral to get 120/240.
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:13 PM   #30
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Re: Wiring outlet for the cooktop


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Originally Posted by Shaneyj View Post
Look at 200.7.
240v circuits that do not require a nuetral can be energized from a two wire cable as long as the white wire is reidentified

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The OP needs 120/240, not just 240. A neutral is needed.
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