Wiring A New Switch, Extended Comments - Electrical - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 08-10-2014, 09:07 PM   #16
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,818
Rewards Points: 3,766
Default


Down on white, back on black.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
clw1963 (08-11-2014), jbfan (08-10-2014), Stubbie (08-10-2014)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-10-2014, 09:17 PM   #17
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 8,961
Rewards Points: 1,734
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Down on white, back on black.

What ya talkin about Jim......
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)
MTN REMODEL LLC is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-10-2014, 11:15 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 5,323
Rewards Points: 6,886
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
This just makes it consistent with 200.7 that requires the white to be the supply for a single pole.
Yeah, but what's the reasoning for that?
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-10-2014, 11:39 PM   #19
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,341
Rewards Points: 2,652
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
Yeah, but what's the reasoning for that?
The nec prohibits the switching of the white wire marked or other wise in lighting configurations. Probably because they don't allow switching the neutral or any grounded conductor. It's all covered in article 404.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 03:53 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 241
Rewards Points: 455
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by white033 View Post
So I successfully installed the switch...turns out there were 2 white wires capped together, so I uncapped and hooked the white wire there...and bare copper that I could hook up a ground. Then I put the black to the hot black wire and the red to the other (not hot) black wire. Unfortunately I fried the first switch by shorting the circuit but live and learn. Next time I'll give you a better picture as to what wires are present in the box. Thanks again Jim, sparky90, and stubbie as I couldn't have done it without your expertise!!!!
Well I guess I was right. Glad it worked out in the end.
sparky90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 04:53 AM   #21
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,818
Rewards Points: 3,766
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
Yeah, but what's the reasoning for that?
If the black was used as the supp!y to the switch you end up with two whites at the fixture. Makes it harder to tell which is neutral.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 05:33 AM   #22
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,655
Rewards Points: 2,970
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc
Now that is something I've never heard of. I wonder why that would be. Anyway, I have a marker I use sometimes for writing on the cable where it goes, but tape is easier for "encircling" the color coding, and paint would just plain be very inconvenient.

It's so you don't end up with two white conductors at the the outlet, making mistakes more prone to handymen and the unqualified.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 05:35 AM   #23
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,655
Rewards Points: 2,970
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan
Too me and all the people over the years that I have worked with: Switch loop is using the white wire fed from the ceiling box to the switch, and the power return on the black wire. Switch leg: and wire from the switch to the ceiling box to supply power. Just my .02 worth.

I had this discussion with my coworker, and he shared the same opinion as yourself, but technically when you google either switch leg, switch loop, they mean the same thing.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to stickboy1375 For This Useful Post:
jbfan (08-11-2014)
Old 08-11-2014, 06:46 AM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 241
Rewards Points: 455
Default


common sense tells you to connect the hot(black) in the ceiling box to the white going down to the switch so that you can switch back up to the light fixture with a black wire. If you switch down on the black and return to the fixture with white, now you have 2 white wires at the fixture. That's dumb. A home owner changing a fixture pays no attention to the black to white splice in the box, he is only concerned with a black and white to replace the fixture.
sparky90 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sparky90 For This Useful Post:
Stubbie (08-11-2014)
Old 08-11-2014, 09:17 AM   #25
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,341
Rewards Points: 2,652
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky90 View Post
Well I guess I was right. Glad it worked out in the end.
Ya know I'm gonna have to learn that homeowners never pull the switch out and look inside the box .... As the saying goes ya lose some and ya win some .... Anyway I'm glad he got it done also.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 10:46 AM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 5,323
Rewards Points: 6,886
Default


Alright, well here's my take on it given what you guys have said.

First, the old rule seems a moot point given the new rule. If a white is correctly recoded as a black, then what difference does it make which wire goes to the switch and which returns? The only reason for sending the white hot to the switch is so that you don't have 2 whites at the fixture, but this must be recolored anyway so what difference does that make? Who is going to think a white wire recolored black is a neutral wire? We have to draw the line somewhere with regard to electrical knowledge.

Second, I understand the logic in using 3 wire cable to a switch and thus having a red wire, but I don't see the logic in not having to recolor it, in the context of 200.7. If someone is going to get confused about a white wire in a box, then they certainly also have the potential to get confused about a red wire maybe representing a 240v circuit. Once recolored, it's clear what it is, which was the intention of requiring recoded whites in the first place.
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 10:54 AM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 5,323
Rewards Points: 6,886
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirweldalot View Post
I have a 220 volt outlet outside my home and want to make it into (2) 110 volts.(1) for a pool pump and one just to have around for anything to plug into. Thanks in advance for the info.
.
Start a separate thread for this sir weld.
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 11:00 AM   #28
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,341
Rewards Points: 2,652
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
Alright, well here's my take on it given what you guys have said.

First, the old rule seems a moot point given the new rule. If a white is correctly recoded as a black, then what difference does it make which wire goes to the switch and which returns? The only reason for sending the white hot to the switch is so that you don't have 2 whites at the fixture, but this must be recolored anyway so what difference does that make? Who is going to think a white wire recolored black is a neutral wire? We have to draw the line somewhere with regard to electrical knowledge.

Second, I understand the logic in using 3 wire cable to a switch and thus having a red wire, but I don't see the logic in not having to recolor it, in the context of 200.7. If someone is going to get confused about a white wire in a box, then they certainly also have the potential to get confused about a red wire maybe representing a 240v circuit. Once recolored, it's clear what it is, which was the intention of requiring recoded whites in the first place.
Fortunately Jeff the NEC code book isn't written so a unqualified homeowner can't get confused. It's written for qualified people who know what they are looking at.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stubbie For This Useful Post:
HouseHelper (08-11-2014), jbfan (08-11-2014), Jim Port (08-11-2014), stickboy1375 (08-12-2014)
Old 08-11-2014, 11:08 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 5,323
Rewards Points: 6,886
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
Fortunately Jeff the NEC code book isn't written so a unqualified homeowner can't get confused. It's written for qualified people who know what they are looking at.
Nope, that makes no sense either. Some of you guys are already complaining that a "real" electrician should know what white wires are used for to begin with. You didn't disagree with Jim when he wrote:

"The NEC did not require the white to be reidentified until several years ago..... The change came about because of people working on things that had no clue what they were doing."

So the NEC does change code to help in situations where less experienced people will be working. Either that, or Jim is wrong.

So my question remains - does anyone know why these seemingly inconsistent rules are in place?
jeffnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2014, 11:17 AM   #30
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,341
Rewards Points: 2,652
Default


Quote:
"The NEC did not require the white to be reidentified until several years ago..... The change came about because of people working on things that had no clue what they were doing."
Jeff do you really believe that?
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Troubleshoot a 4-way switch circuit: instructions for a 2-year-old pete0403 Electrical 22 09-28-2019 09:54 PM
Simple question regarding Wall Switch wiring kebrein Electrical 6 11-25-2011 07:54 PM
Wiring an Intermatic Wall Timer in a three way switch aitutaki98 Electrical 6 07-23-2011 11:43 AM
Unusual three way switch wiring help r1racer Electrical 9 11-11-2010 08:49 PM
Switch on K&T wiring - OK to pigtail? fdmillion Electrical 4 01-27-2010 09:15 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts