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Old 09-04-2009, 09:07 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
NO! DO NOT do this. It is a serious code violation and NOT at all smart.

Find out why the breaker is tripping. Four year old wiring should not "go bad".

Something is wrong, you, or better yet an electrician, should find out what it is.
If you have no clue about this stuff then troubleshooting a problem is almost certainly out of the scope of your abilities at this point.
But what can be done? If the wire is ok at the panel and the break is in the run what's next? I don't know if pulling new wire is an option... even for an electrician, everything is enclosed
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:07 PM   #17
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An easy way to test continuity is take something like a 9 volt battery with a flashlight bulb and use the two wires as the "circuit". If the light goes on there is a short. If it does not go on, try with more batteries. (low DC voltage degrades fairly quick so maybe the 9 volt wont cut it)

Just remember, if you do this TURN OFF THE BREAKER! (well it's tripped, but still, make EXTRA sure it really is off)
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:09 PM   #18
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OK, reread = you said DW is on a 15a breaker - so that means #14 wire
Blue sparks could be a short
Could be a loose/broken connection in the DW electric box - which is usually behind the DW
That wiring needs to be verified as OK
And someone needs to trace the wiring from breaker panel to the DW & make sure a screw/nail hasn't been driven into the wire
Any construction or anything else going on near where the wire runs?
Sheetrock on basement ceiling?
It is against code as Speedy said to pull power from that other circuit

If the wire is bad/damaged/no longer able to be used then pulling new wire is the only option other then not using the DW



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Old 09-04-2009, 09:21 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
OK, reread = you said DW is on a 15a breaker - so that means #14 wire
Blue sparks could be a short
Could be a loose/broken connection in the DW electric box - whcih is usually behind the DW
That wiring needs ti be veridied as OK
And someone needs to trace the wiring from breaker panel to the DW & make sure a screw/nail hasn't been driven into the wire
Any construction or anything else going on near where the wire runs?
Sheetrock on basement ceiling?
It is against code as Speedy said to pull power from that other circuit

If the wire is bad/damaged/no longer able to be used then pulling new wire is the only option other then not using the DW
I totally disconnected wire from DW and put new breaker in and it still tripped. I finished the basement several moths ago, yes sheetrock, and we had no problem with DW. The only other thing I did was install a ceiling fan in the basement earlier this week... wait a minute!!... I kept getting shocked even though the the circuit was off to the fan wiring... My friends thought I was nuts when I told them that. Oh crap I know what happened!!! All I had was a blue box were I needed to hang the ceiling fan, blue box obviously not rated to support the weight of a ceiling fan. I had to install an "existing construction" metal bar that spans between the floor joists, that's what I hung the metal octagon box to. I kept getting shocked while I was turning the bar to lock it into the wood. damnit... now I know why. I was hitting the [email protected] wire to DW, it must be stapled to the floor joist!!!


You hit it right on the head!! Thanks!

Now how do I fix this? I will have to cut a small hole in the ceiling, then cut the bad piece of wire out, and then splice a new piece in. Can I splice a new piece in or do I need a junction box?


Thanks again!!

Last edited by beginnerDIY; 09-04-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:42 PM   #20
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So you were getting shocked as you turned the fan brace, yet you kept going and never though to find out why?????
WOW!


Yes, cut a hole and splice a new section of wire in. You will more than likely have to install two boxes with a new piece of wire in between. BOTH boxes MUST remain accessible.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:49 PM   #21
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lol got shocked and kept going? that is dedication. Shocks usually throw me back a bit. reflexes and the "wtf was that?" factor.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:50 PM   #22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
So you were getting shocked as you turned the fan brace, yet you kept going and never though to find out why?????
WOW!


Yes, cut a hole and splice a new section of wire in. You will more than likely have to install two boxes with a new piece of wire in between. BOTH boxes MUST remain accessible.
Color me stupid I guess

You have to understand what was happening. My hand kept hitting the wires at the same time because they were very short. Then I'd think was that a shock from the wire. It happened several times and I figured the right breaker was off but I didn't have a tester.. The only test I had was the light switch. I thought that maybe the switch was on a different breaker.. don't ask... So I ended up turning off the main breaker then I completed the install.

Remain accessible... in the ceiling???
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
So you were getting shocked as you turned the fan brace, yet you kept going and never though to find out why?????
WOW!


Yes, cut a hole and splice a new section of wire in. You will more than likely have to install two boxes with a new piece of wire in between. BOTH boxes MUST remain accessible.
If you're lucky and there's enough slack one jbox may do, but be prepared to put two and yes they must be accessible which means they'll be visible, but you can get a fancy cover or something.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:53 PM   #24
 
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lol got shocked and kept going? that is dedication. Shocks usually throw me back a bit. reflexes and the "wtf was that?" factor.
The shocks made me turn the main breaker off. Figured I had the wrong breaker or something.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Remain accessible... in the ceiling???
Has to be accessible without needing to undo any construction. So the most basic of visible jbox would be similar to what your typical light socket would be, but with a flat cover over it and I don't think it's against code to paint over it, so you can do that to make it stand out less.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:57 PM   #26
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Ah, good that you found it
Not sure if the fan box is big enough to use as a junction box?



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Old 09-04-2009, 09:58 PM   #27
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beginnerDIY - congrats on diagnosing the problem. Speedy makes a valid point about the energized fan brace, it's probably time for new friends.

It's a nice example of a breaker doing its job - and a perfect example of why when a breaker trips the first thing that should be done is to look for a failure in the circuit.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:59 PM   #28
 
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If you're lucky and there's enough slack one jbox may do, but be prepared to put two and yes they must be accessible which means they'll be visible, but you can get a fancy cover or something.
There should be enough slack. I have about 6 feet that comes out at the DW. As long as it's not stapled somewhere in between I should be ok.

Why would they need to be accessible? I know it's code... but why?? Does something happen to them frequently or are they just suspect?
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:02 PM   #29
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Boxes must be accessible so some other hapless DIYer doesn't make the same kind of mistake you did.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:04 PM   #30
 
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Ah, good that you found it
Not sure if the fan box is big enough to use as a junction box?
Thanks, the box is, I think, 1 1/2" deep. It may be deep enough. Does that count as accessible?
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