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Old 02-17-2015, 03:24 PM   #1
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Wire 200A Subpanel that will become main panel


We have a 200A Amalgamated fuse panel in our house right now. I want to replace it with a 200A circuit breaker panel located 4' to the left of the current panel. Instead of paying an electrician the $1000 I was quoted, I'd like to do the work myself. I have installed my garage panel and wired entire garage + a few circuits in my home. I am very comfortable with the process and will pull permits of course.

My thoughts are that I can install a new 200 amp main panel 4' to the left of the current panel.

- I will connect a 60A breaker on the current panel to the main lugs on the new panel with 6 gauge copper cable (3 wires + ground). No conduit as the room where both panels are/will be, will be unfinished.

- New panel will not be neutral/ground bonded and the neutral and ground will run separately back to the current panel.

- I will start moving branch circuits over one-by-one to the new panel until I have no circuits left on the current panel. Everything being fed off the new 200A panel.

- I will call POCO and get power disconnected to the house.

- Run new longer conduit from LB at house entrance to new panel location.

- Install service entrance wires (new longer wires) to the new panel box the from meter base and move grounding from current panel to the new panel.

- Get the work inspected and get POCO to turn power back on.

This way I can work on it for a few days slowly until I have all the branch circuits moved over and only be without power for a short duration at a time.

1. I am insulating my concrete block foundation on the inside with XPS foam then building stud wall in front. Can I put XPS behind the new panel location and cover it with a 3/4" sheet of plywood for backer?

2. Will my method above (during the cutover phase) be approved? Essentially no different then having the new panel as a subpanel and then moving service wires to it at the end.

3. Can I install the new service wire from the meter base to the panel or does this have to be done by an electrician/POCO? What size feeder is used for 200A from meter base to panel (10' of wire total)?

4. Do I need to use AFI breakers for bedrooms or am I grandfathered in because I am not touching the bedroom wiring?

(I am in Ontario Canada if that matters)

THANK YOU EVERYONE!
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:35 AM   #2
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Bump, any thoughts or opinions?
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickWa View Post
We have a 200A Amalgamated fuse panel in our house right now. I want to replace it with a 200A circuit breaker panel located 4' to the left of the current panel. Instead of paying an electrician the $1000 I was quoted, I'd like to do the work myself. I have installed my garage panel and wired entire garage + a few circuits in my home. I am very comfortable with the process and will pull permits of course.

My thoughts are that I can install a new 200 amp main panel 4' to the left of the current panel.

- I will connect a 60A breaker on the current panel to the main lugs on the new panel with 6 gauge copper cable (3 wires + ground). No conduit as the room where both panels are/will be, will be unfinished.You need the 60 amp breaker in the new panel to protect the wiring if you plan to use the old panel as a sub-panel. Or is this just a temporary hoop-up while you relocate the circuits?

- New panel will not be neutral/ground bonded and the neutral and ground will run separately back to the current panel.4 wires is correct

- I will start moving branch circuits over one-by-one to the new panel until I have no circuits left on the current panel. Everything being fed off the new 200A panel.

- I will call POCO and get power disconnected to the house.

- Run new longer conduit from LB at house entrance to new panel location.You might need a main breaker at the meter if the line is long. Check with power company and electrical inspector

- Install service entrance wires (new longer wires) to the new panel box the from meter base and move grounding from current panel to the new panel.

- Get the work inspected and get POCO to turn power back on.

This way I can work on it for a few days slowly until I have all the branch circuits moved over and only be without power for a short duration at a time.

1. I am insulating my concrete block foundation on the inside with XPS foam then building stud wall in front. Can I put XPS behind the new panel location and cover it with a 3/4" sheet of plywood for backer?I think so.

2. Will my method above (during the cutover phase) be approved? Essentially no different then having the new panel as a subpanel and then moving service wires to it at the end.Seems okay.

3. Can I install the new service wire from the meter base to the panel or does this have to be done by an electrician/POCO? What size feeder is used for 200A from meter base to panel (10' of wire total)?Seems okay, but check with power company and electrical inspector. You might need a main breaker at the meter.

4. Do I need to use AFI breakers for bedrooms or am I grandfathered in because I am not touching the bedroom wiring?AFCI breakers provide an extra level of protection. They are not a bad idea to install. Check with your inspector to see if they are required.

(I am in Ontario Canada if that matters)It does.

THANK YOU EVERYONE!
Your plan sounds doable. Just doublecheck with inspector and power company. On some bigger jobs, I submit a one page "Scope of Work" with my permit application which outlines what I plan to do. That way the inspector has an idea of what is going on when he approves the application and also when he shows up to inspect.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:03 AM   #4
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That would not meet the NEC in the States. The code calls for the unfused service conductors to be "as short as practical". By moving the panel even further into the building they would not meet that condition. I do not know if the CEC is similar.
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:53 AM   #5
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That would not meet the NEC in the States. The code calls for the unfused service conductors to be "as short as practical". By moving the panel even further into the building they would not meet that condition. I do not know if the CEC is similar.
Could he just do as planned except replace the old box with a small 200 amp breaker/disconnect?
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:17 PM   #6
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Good idea except then I'd have to leave that box accessible which I was hoping to do drywall in bedroom which is why I wanted to move to utility room right next door.
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Old 02-19-2015, 01:16 PM   #7
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Then you might need to set a disconnect outside.

How do you plan to splice or move the wires from the old panel into the new panel?
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:55 PM   #8
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Then you might need to set a disconnect outside.

How do you plan to splice or move the wires from the old panel into the new panel?
Once I have all the branch circuits moved to the new panel and the main power being fed from the current panel to the new, I will call POCO to shut off power. At that point I would replace the main lines from the meter to the new panel box with slightly longer ones (and new longer PVC conduit (apparently galvanized rigid isn't allowed in Ontario code anymore)).

I would then disconnect the feeder from current panel to the new panel thereby making the new panel the main and only panel. The current panel would be removed.

Once new conduit is in and new lines are run and connected, I would get inspector over to sign off then have POCO turn power back on.


That is my plan anyways.
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