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Old 03-14-2017, 01:23 AM   #16
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Re: Will this pass inspection? + some related questions


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Originally Posted by Bria Johnn View Post
Your inspector is an idiot,
He is indeed an idiot, but I see where he was coming from: gfci trips and you're in the dark without any lights. Could slip if coming out of the shower, etc, etc. It was an easy fix so I didn't complain. On the next inspection a different inspector came and when I told him what had happened he rolled his eyes basically implying the other inspector is a moron.
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:40 AM   #17
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Re: Will this pass inspection? + some related questions


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Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
In Australia...
This is unfortunate. I am an attorney and when I practiced I had as a client the local power company. I dealt mainly in electrocution cases. Those that lived ended up very messed up, both physically and mentally. Losing a limb is no joke.

Most cases of electrocution occur by the victim's negligence, or in the case of these teenagers in Oz, by pure ignorance. A lot of negligence on behalf of the employer as well.

If you are doing insulation or plumbing or drywall installation, best practice is to turn off the main power. GFCI breakers are expensive and bulky and a PITA compared to outlets (IMO).

Accidents happen. GFCI has its place. On all outlets at the panel is overkill.

PS: do you guys use 240v on all outlets? I think this may be the reason why these young men got killed by electrocution.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:47 AM   #18
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Re: Will this pass inspection? + some related questions


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Originally Posted by Richard Pryor View Post
Accidents happen. GFCI has its place. On all outlets at the panel is overkill.

PS: do you guys use 240v on all outlets? I think this may be the reason why these young men got killed by electrocution.
Frankly, we would consider that using GFCI on more than the first outlet on a circuit and protecting those downstream with that would be "overkill" - an unfortunate word in the context!
Such socket outlets were initially available here (and are still available) but current requirements are to place the protection at the panel. This protects the feed to the first outlet on the circuit, which could just as easily be damaged as any other cable in a building.

It is permitted to protect up to three separate circuits with one RCD (Residual Current Device) but the disadvantage with that is that up to three circuits loose power with the fault on only one, which makes fault finding more difficult - and is a dammed nuisance.

Hence, unless the owner is a cheapskate, it is preferred to fit RCBOs (Residual Current Circuit Breaker with Over Current Protection) on all circuits requiring protection - which now includes lighting circuits.


To suggest that the use of 240 V (with respect to Earth) causes more deaths than 120 V is a bit of an Urban Myth.
http://www.erac.gov.au/images/Downlo...02015-2016.pdf indicates that deaths due to electrocution in Australia/NZ is trending down and are now less than 0.6 per million people per year.
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ch/statistics/ indicates that 28 people were electrocuted in the UK in 2010 (mostly in the home) which is 0.44 per million.
http://files.esfi.org/file/Workplace...-2003-2010.pdf indicates that by 2010 in the USA electrocution deaths were down to about 165 among workers (0,53 per million of the population). This does not include deaths in the home.
However, http://www.ameriburn.org/Preven/Elec...#39;sGuide.pdf states that on average 400 die from electrocution in the USA each year, which is 1.29 per million.


All lighting and outlets in Australia (and in most countries outside North america and Japan) are, nominally, 230V.
[In 1980 Standards Australia issued a system Standard, AS60038, with 230V as the nominal voltage with a +10% to –6% variation at the point of supply. (253 V to 216.2 V)]

Lighting circuits are 10 A, via 1 mm˛ CSA (Cross Sectional Area) cable (or, lately 1.5 mm˛ CSA cable)
Power circuits were 15 A when Fuse protected but are now protected by 16 A Circuit Breakers (or RCBOs) and fed via 2.5 mm˛ CSA cable.
Usually there are a number of 10 A rated switched socket outlets on each 16 A circuit. (See (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112)
(No maximum or minimum number is specified in the regulations but you would be an idiot not to provide fewer outlets per circuit in the kitchen and laundry than elsewhere in the house.)
At 230 V, a 10 A socket outlet can provide 2300 W and the 16 A circuit can provide 3680 W - so there is no problem of running three 1000 W appliances on the same circuit at the same time. (The most that can be derived from a 20 A circuit at 120 V is 2400 W.)
Individual 15 A socket outlets may be provided on 16 A circuits - for Ovens, Air Conditioners etc. (15 A outlets are also provided at Powered Sites in Caravan Parks.)
If a device requires more than 15 A, it is usually hardwired via an appropriately sized cable and breaker.

20 A, 25 A and 32 A sockets do exist but they are used only in industrial situations. All plugs will fit the socket for which they are rated and will also fit into any socket of higher rating, However, they will not fit into a socket of lower rating, (See http://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Australian_3hd.html)

Apart from 1 mm˛ CSA cable, which has solid power conductors with a stranded Earth conductor, all conductors used are stranded and not solid.
(Solid conductor cable is available [and is slightly cheaper] up to 2.5 mm˛ CSA. However, since the price difference is minimal, only stranded conductors are generally used.)

Since about 1966, all earth wires within cables have been insulated.
(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring)
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