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Old 06-25-2020, 07:41 PM   #31
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


The easiest thing has already been mentioned.
Just add an outlet behind the TV wired to the outlet now below it.
A few feet of Romex in the wall is certainly allowed.
Or leaves the box that is there now and move the receptacle up.
Blank the box and it's done.
Then add a low voltage box behind the TV and move your LV to it.
And if you don't want to do that, Best Buy has these:
DATACOMM TV Cable Organizer w/ Duplex Power Solution (50-6623-WH-KIT)

If your area allows Romex it allows this kit.
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:55 PM   #32
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by VMat View Post
It's a DIY box with 120V relays. Both the input and the output are 120V, Keystone ports won't help. But thanks again for the suggestions!

VMat
General question for electricians relating to above:

Could one add a "dummy" outlet at the bottom that runs only to a higher outlet (behind TV) so that power would come through the 120V outlet, similar to a switched outlet?


As a second note to you VMat; have you considered a switched outlet instead of your 120v relay? heh
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Old 06-27-2020, 12:11 PM   #33
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Oh, boy... I missed some replies, will try to answer to everyone at once.


First of all, my apologies for not telling the whole story in the original post. I didn't mention the relay box because I thought it would unnecessarily complicate the scenario, and mentioning the surge protector should be enough. Obviously, I was wrong.


Second, I'm in Canada. Should probably have made that clear in the original post too. I appreciate the suggestions from all the people in the US though, and I'm searching for those products in Canadian stores, but unfortunately 1) we can't always find the same products here, and 2) the prices here range from crazy to outrageous...



Third, not a huge deal, but I already have the low-voltage cables (in-wall rated) running through a conduit from the rack on the side. Most of those kits come with a 2-gang outlet for both power and LV. I wouldn't use the LV.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
As a second note to you VMat; have you considered a switched outlet instead of your 120v relay? heh


Besides saving energy, the relay box also has the purpose of preventing the equipment to switch back on after a power outage. I had four or five momentary outages here in the past 30 days... Don't want to have anything damaged by the voltage swings.


Thanks again, everyone!


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Old 07-01-2020, 03:31 PM   #34
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


We ran a conduit in the wall and strung our power cords though that to an outlet in a locked cabinet. We did this because our son is severely mentally disabled and we needed a way to make sure he did not have any access to any power cords in his bedroom. The cabinet locks up so the only way to access the actual outlet is with a key. It probably doesn't meet 'code' of some sort, but we really don't care. We made a choice that we feel is the safest for our son's benefit. The living room tv, we bought a plastic channel type thing that we painted the color of the wall and it just mounts up and you run the cord in it, and then it has a top piece that slides on over it. You cannot see or access the cord after it is put on. Then it plugs up IN a furniture drawer on a power strip. We open the drawer and unplug it from the strip if it storms ect.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:46 PM   #35
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


I used a couple of brush wall plates from Amazon and fished the wires down the wall. I know it is not code compliant but I know it is there, if I ever sell it will be gone, and no NEC compliance cops are coming in my house. If I go to hell for doing it, it will suck pretty badly.
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Old 07-01-2020, 09:00 PM   #36
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


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Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post


Also, there's surge protector outlets now, they look very much like a regular outlet, but have surge protection on them -

You could also get a whole house surge protector for your fuse box.
You insert them in place of current fuses.
But you would need to hire an electrician.

But it would cover everything in the house.
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Old 07-02-2020, 02:06 AM   #37
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


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Originally Posted by DallasCowboys View Post
You could also get a whole house surge protector for your fuse box.
You insert them in place of current fuses.
But you would need to hire an electrician.

But it would cover everything in the house.
I plan on doing that myself. We don't have lightning up here but we do get power surges from downed trees during wind and ice storms.

Not something I'd recommend for DIY if one doesn't know what they're doing though
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Old 07-02-2020, 04:59 AM   #38
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


I asm sorry to again intrude upon this "thread," after so many days, but please permit me to post this "point of view".
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRodx10 View Post
The relevant portion of the code was quoted by betelgeuse in post #2 of this thread.

As to why it's in the code, beyond what I already stated, I only have speculation as to what events led to that particular restriction. If it's like many of the code provisions, a few people did something stupid and got themselves or someone else killed, and so they amended the code to hopefully prevent stupid people from doing that particular stupid thing in the future.
As far as I can see, the "Code" is quoted as follows : -
400.10, flexible cables, flexible cord sets, and power supply
cords shall not be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings,
suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors.

With relation to "Electricity", I have found a definition of "Duct" which states that it is "a single enclosed runway for conductors or cables."

If the "Duct" were to be placed on the surface of the wall (and painted with the "wall colour", to be less noticable), would there be any "code" restriction upon it?
If not, why would any such restriction be applied to it if it were to be 'sunk" into the wall?

However, would a "duct" provided specifically for the purpose of "enclosing" a power supply "cable" to a "device", where the "cable" could be inserted and extracted without the use of a "tool", to be considered as a "hole in the wall"?

Further to this, in this country (Australia) it is considered that any "wiring" which can be installed and removed without the "use of a tool" is not "fixed wiring".
This means that a "flexible" power lead to any device must not be "fixed" - to a wall, skirting or similar.

However, this has led to the development of devices such as these (https://www.bunnings.com.au/permasti...-pack_p3950439) which can be affixed to surfaces and cables can be "gripped", but the cables can be "ungripped" (by the fingers of a human being) without the use of a "tool'.
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Old 07-02-2020, 11:16 AM   #39
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
General question for electricians relating to above:

Could one add a "dummy" outlet at the bottom that runs only to a higher outlet (behind TV) so that power would come through the 120V outlet, similar to a switched outlet?
And how will you get from a live outlet to the dummy? Suicide cord?

Seriously, what you propose is actually a thing, and they solve the “suicide cord” problem by inverting the “dummy” outlet to be what’s called an inlet. It’s a socket with prongs. You stick the female end of an extension cord in there, and the other end into a live wall socket. Works slick as a whistle and is code legal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VMat View Post
First of all, my apologies for not telling the whole story in the original post. I didn't mention the relay box because I thought it would unnecessarily complicate the scenario....
Probably true, but it creates an “XY problem”. An XY problem is this:

“How do I split a bicycle rim so it can go back together?”
(Six pages of complicated answers and debate follow)
Message 81: “What are you trying to do anyway?”
Message 82: “Oh, I’m trying to change the tire.”
Message 83: “You would never split the rim for that, you just use this tool”.
Message 84: “Oh, duh, thanks.”


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrillyLily View Post
We ran a conduit in the wall and strung our power cords though that to an outlet in a locked cabinet.
...And the Code way to do that is to hardwire the appliances, cutting the plugs off and having them enter a junction box via a proper strain relief. Then in-wall wiring from there onward. Feel free to use high-security screws on the J-boxes.


Quote:
It probably doesn't meet 'code' of some sort, but we really don't care. We made a choice that we feel is the safest
> ignores code
> for safety

Um, you don’t get to “feel” safety. A bunch of engineers get together and use data driven science to figure out what safety actually is. Doing anything else is pretending, it’s like taking your shoes off at the airport.

Are these circuits even GFCI protected???? Seriously.

If they are GFCI protected, why do you care if s/he unplugs them?

Safety isn’t doing a bunch of random stuff and patting yourself on the back for having done SOMETHING. Safety is engineering.

Last edited by seharper; 07-02-2020 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 07-02-2020, 12:00 PM   #40
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


When I remodeled my house some years ago, we removed a window on one wall and planned to put a big TV there. I installed 3/4" plywood blocking for the bracket mounting.

Today I realize the mistake I made by not addressing the cables. So the 75" TV sits on a TV console.
If I was to do it again:

I would have made a chase. I would get a washing machine valve box for top and bottom. I would leave that stud bay open and leave several strings hanging for pulling up cables.
This way its not permanent. So power and data can be pulled up in the same bay. You can make new holes in the valve box or just cut out the bottom for the one behind the TV and the top for the bottom one.
Plenty room to pull new equipment cables as needed.
I have learned that I will use more than one HDMI. So an open 16" bay with access to the top and bottom is my way to go.
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Old 07-03-2020, 03:31 PM   #41
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by Missouri Bound View Post
The easiest thing has already been mentioned.
Just add an outlet behind the TV wired to the outlet now below it.
A few feet of Romex in the wall is certainly allowed.
Or leaves the box that is there now and move the receptacle up.
Blank the box and it's done.
Then add a low voltage box behind the TV and move your LV to it.
And if you don't want to do that, Best Buy has these:
DATACOMM TV Cable Organizer w/ Duplex Power Solution (50-6623-WH-KIT)

If your area allows Romex it allows this kit.



I did this very project for a stereo in my bedroom. Not wanting the wires hanging. Easy job look perfect.
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:54 AM   #42
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by seharper View Post
And how will you get from a live outlet to the dummy? Suicide cord?

Seriously, what you propose is actually a thing, and they solve the “suicide cord” problem by inverting the “dummy” outlet to be what’s called an inlet. It’s a socket with prongs. You stick the female end of an extension cord in there, and the other end into a live wall socket. Works slick as a whistle and is code legal.
Something like this is code then? https://www.amazon.com/Echogear-Powe...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

I heard in-wall extension cords of any kind weren't code in some places so I always hesitated to recommend it.

---

Is there some kind of "short cut" to say when code would consider something "an in-wall extension cord" vs "hard wired" - like "it has no end plugs" or "is in a box" or anything like that? I'm asking for a friend who wants to run 12V power to individually addressable LED's at the ceiling down to a standard light switch :P
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Last edited by Mystriss; 07-04-2020 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:24 AM   #43
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post

I'm asking for a friend who wants to run 12V power to individually addressable LED's at the ceiling down to a standard light switch :P
12 Volt wiring doesn't fit the same set of rules for in wall placement.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:51 AM   #44
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
If ETL listed it, and it’s installed according to approved instructions, then 110.2 and 110.3(B) say it’s Code.

However it’s not what it looks like.

- The bit of cable that goes inside the wall is not “cordage”, it is an appropriate wiring type such as NM-B.
- The socket on the lower unit is not a socket, it is an inlet, meaning the socket has prongs.
- The cord running from the lower box to the wall socket is actially a plain extension cord.


Quote:
I heard in-wall extension cords of any kind weren't code in some places so I always hesitated to recommend it.
You are correct. “Cordage” is flexible cords such as SJOOW e.g. appliance and extension cords. That is always wrong inside walls. In-wall wiring such as NM-B or UF-B is allowed inside walls, but is not allowed as cordage.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:54 AM   #45
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Re: In-wall wiring - TV power cord


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystriss View Post
If ETL listed it, and it’s installed according to approved instructions, then 110.2 and 110.3(B) say it’s Code.

However it’s not what it looks like.

- The bit of cable that goes inside the wall is not “cordage”, it is an appropriate wiring type such as NM-B.
- The socket on the lower unit is not a socket, it is an inlet, meaning the socket has prongs.
- The cord running from the lower box to the wall socket is actially a plain extension cord.


Quote:
I heard in-wall extension cords of any kind weren't code in some places so I always hesitated to recommend it.
You are correct. “Cordage” is flexible cords such as SJOOW e.g. appliance and extension cords. That is always wrong inside walls. In-wall wiring such as NM-B or UF-B is allowed inside walls, but not allowed as cordage.
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