Using Power Ouetlet As Inlet - Electrical - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree42Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 12-26-2018, 07:08 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 1,412
Rewards Points: 1,256
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by DYIer2018 View Post
...”As for what I am capable of, I have a bachelors degree in electrical engineering but I do not work on house wiring.”...

The nature of your request is proof having a degree in electronics or communications provides zero value when it comes to electrical code and the NEC. In fact it might be a liability as you assert knowledge you don’t possess.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
curiousB is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-26-2018, 07:51 PM   #17
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,377
Rewards Points: 3,632
Default


Needing to use a suicide cord should be enough reason not to do this.
jproffer likes this.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-26-2018, 08:58 PM   #18
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,701
Rewards Points: 23,748
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Sounds like your generator is only 15 amps 120 volts. Just run an extension cord through a window.
rjniles likes this.
joed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-26-2018, 11:11 PM   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: California
Posts: 29
Rewards Points: 58
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousB View Post
The nature of your request is proof having a degree in electronics or communications provides zero value when it comes to electrical code and the NEC. In fact it might be a liability as you assert knowledge you don’t possess.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CuriousB,


If anybody that has a degree did you wrong, let me apologize for them. Keep in mind that I am not your enemy and for you to put people with a degree down just because they have a degree is just not nice.



I did not claim to have any advance knowledge. I just said I had a degree in electrical engineering, I meant I had an understanding of how electricity works. I also said I was here to ask others that know more than I do because I do not work on house wiring.
DYIer2018 is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 11:17 PM   #20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: California
Posts: 29
Rewards Points: 58
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
Sounds like your generator is only 15 amps 120 volts. Just run an extension cord through a window.

JoeD,


Yes, my generator is 15 amps. It is a basic inverter generator I purchased to power my refrigerators and basic lights, and possibly my computer in the event of extended power outage. It was not my intention to power the whole house.


After reading responses, it is a bit more money than I expected to spend or, it had the downsides like overload my generator due to start-up current. The more I think about it, I should just get some long extension cords and throw it through the window or door when the need arises. In the event I need power for more than a couple of days, I would probably be sleeping in a tent outside because the house has been leveled.



Thank you for the response.
DYIer2018 is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 11:33 PM   #21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: California
Posts: 29
Rewards Points: 58
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Needing to use a suicide cord should be enough reason not to do this.

Jim Port,


If we put the NEC code aside, a suicide cord is the same as using jumper cables when jumping a car battery from another car. If you get the polarity wrong, bad things will happen.



Yes, I understand that the code is there for a reason. Since I do not have much experience with NEC code other than talking to people like yourself, I am going to use the drivers handbook as an example as I am sure all of us drive a car of some sort.


When I took the test for my driver's license, I got some questions wrong. I did not get them wrong because I did not know the answer. Instead, I got them wrong because I answered them according to my understanding of physics and thermodynamics works instead of the wrong answers published in the driver's handbook issued by the state.


Yes, I agree that we should follow the NEC code book for legal and liability reasons. However, with practical experience, one can find ways of doing things better and cheaper than what the code book states. Hence why I am here to ask others that know more about house wiring than I do.



I hope you understand where I am coming form.


Thanks for reading and taking the time to reply.
CaptTom likes this.

Last edited by DYIer2018; 12-26-2018 at 11:52 PM.
DYIer2018 is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 03:26 AM   #22
retired framer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 26,200
Rewards Points: 20,290
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


The problem is the cord could be pulled by kids, pets or critters, just by tripping over it.
50/50 chance which plug pulls out. some one could be holding a live male. that wouldn't be limited to 20 amp breaker in the house it would what ever the breaker is on the generator.
Nealtw is online now  
Old 12-27-2018, 07:19 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 250
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


DYIer2018, I have great respect for degrees, my wife happens to have 2 Masters in fact. But there is a big difference between book learning and common sense. The code is common sense on steroids because it is designed for use by electricians with a variety of skill levels and theory levels. In some cases in fact the code is so aggressive that it's actually become a problem and they had to dial it back some. (see AFCI issues)

You are not looking at this with any degree of common sense. What if you have your setup running and there's a fire and your house burns down during the blackout. You get your family and pets out fine, everyone is OK but a week later your insurance company informs you well sorry pal, the fire inspector found this non compliant non code thing you did with this generator and they think it started the fire - well according to the policy - you are at fault, we aren't covering this one.

Nobody should EVER do anything to a residential building wiring system that they would not want to show a building inspector. That is common sense.

As for keeping a freezer going unless you are buying entire cows and doing your own butchering I would wager that the cost of all the food in your freezer is small enough that you could afford to take a risk with it. Have you tried, for example, putting a thermometer in your freezer full of food and then just unplugging it, then checking the thermometer every couple hours to see how long the freezer will last before the stuff starts melting? I'm betting your freezer will last longer than 3/4 of the blackouts you will ever see. I know I know that's a common sense answer that isn't sexy.
lenaitch, Bud9051 and Nealtw like this.
tmittelstaedt is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 07:45 AM   #24
Member
 
HenryMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 875
Rewards Points: 1,002
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
If you can't do it right, do not do it at all.

Advice to future posters.
Do not give non code or unsafe advice or your post will be deleted.
Just as a point of reference...

As an electrical contractor... you have years of experience in this area.

On a DIY forum... many folks have no idea whatsoever what is code and what is safe.

A fella at work years ago told me about back feeding.. I thought that was a great idea until I researched it.

So I installed a dedicated isolated circuit that ran into the home that was powered by our generator. If you wanted power to an appliance you had to run an extension cord to it.
DYIer2018 likes this.
HenryMac is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 08:36 AM   #25
retired framer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 26,200
Rewards Points: 20,290
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


A friend bought a house and he discovered a few outlets that didn't work and couldn't figure what the problem was but they were all close to working outlets so he left it went solve other problems. When he was trimming shrubs beside the house he found 3 male outlets on the side of the house. They were labeled fridge, freezer, furnace and TV.
He bought a small generator and two short cord and he plugs in 2 at a time and moves them a needed. The new furnace won't operate on the generator. He just moves cords to the previous dead outlets.
DYIer2018 likes this.
Nealtw is online now  
Old 12-27-2018, 09:25 AM   #26
Member
 
Oso954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern Calif.
Posts: 7,864
Rewards Points: 1,964
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
If we put the NEC code aside, a suicide cord is the same as using jumper cables when jumping a car battery from another car. If you get the polarity wrong, bad things will happen.
The jumper cable analogy is a bad one. The danger of a suicide cord isn’t reverse polarity.

Most people have the ingrained idea that a male plug is safe to touch. It is “unplugged from the power supply”. So, anytime you build a suicide cord, you are creating a risk that someone might pick up that powered cord and touch the exposed end.

Between being AC, around 10 times the voltage at minimum, and a minimum of 15 amps, you have a shock hazard far greater than the jumper cables. That shock hazard is multiplied if things are wet.

It’s not just code, it’s making things safe for everyone that will be around it.
jproffer likes this.
Oso954 is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 09:42 AM   #27
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 9,908
Rewards Points: 638
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Also, except under very rare conditions 12 VDC will not kill you


Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
__________________
My electrical answers are based on 2014 NEC, you may have local amendments.

Location: Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:57 PM   #28
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: California
Posts: 29
Rewards Points: 58
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealtw View Post
The problem is the cord could be pulled by kids, pets or critters, just by tripping over it.
50/50 chance which plug pulls out. some one could be holding a live male. that wouldn't be limited to 20 amp breaker in the house it would what ever the breaker is on the generator.

Nealtw,


I am not proposing to use an extension cord permanently.



Besides, I don't have kids or pets to trip over it. I certainly hope I don't have any critters. It is only for emergencies.



If you are referring to a suicide cord, a regular cord can do the same thing.



The point is, during an extended power outage or any other critical times, certain amount of risk has to be accepted if we want power.



I like to use the car example. We all drive a car of some sort, when we get in the car, there is always a chance that we will die in an accident. That's just a risk we are willing to accept. If we want zero risk, we would all be riding around in tanks to avoid accidents but then again, what if somebody's tank goes through your bedroom wall and crushes you? There are always "what if's" and it never ends.
DYIer2018 is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:08 PM   #29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: California
Posts: 29
Rewards Points: 58
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittelstaedt View Post
DYIer2018, I have great respect for degrees, my wife happens to have 2 Masters in fact. But there is a big difference between book learning and common sense. The code is common sense on steroids because it is designed for use by electricians with a variety of skill levels and theory levels. In some cases in fact the code is so aggressive that it's actually become a problem and they had to dial it back some. (see AFCI issues)

You are not looking at this with any degree of common sense. What if you have your setup running and there's a fire and your house burns down during the blackout. You get your family and pets out fine, everyone is OK but a week later your insurance company informs you well sorry pal, the fire inspector found this non compliant non code thing you did with this generator and they think it started the fire - well according to the policy - you are at fault, we aren't covering this one.

Nobody should EVER do anything to a residential building wiring system that they would not want to show a building inspector. That is common sense.

As for keeping a freezer going unless you are buying entire cows and doing your own butchering I would wager that the cost of all the food in your freezer is small enough that you could afford to take a risk with it. Have you tried, for example, putting a thermometer in your freezer full of food and then just unplugging it, then checking the thermometer every couple hours to see how long the freezer will last before the stuff starts melting? I'm betting your freezer will last longer than 3/4 of the blackouts you will ever see. I know I know that's a common sense answer that isn't sexy.

Tmittelstaedt,


I would not go as far as saying the NEC code is common sense. Saying that is like saying that all government created laws align with everybody's moral values which they clearly do not. The NEC code is there to create a "safe enough" standard that everybody can follow. "Safe enough" is updated regularly with new releases as we learn more about our behavior and surroundings.



And, yes I do store a lot of meat. I already have a wireless thermometer in the freezer because I lost all my meat in one freezer once because a receptacle failed.


We all have our specialties and what is "common sense" for us may not be common sense for people outside of our fields.
DYIer2018 is offline  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:08 PM   #30
retired framer
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 26,200
Rewards Points: 20,290
Default

Re: Using power ouetlet as inlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by DYIer2018 View Post
Nealtw,


I am not proposing to use an extension cord permanently.



Besides, I don't have kids or pets to trip over it. I certainly hope I don't have any critters. It is only for emergencies.



If you are referring to a suicide cord, a regular cord can do the same thing.



The point is, during an extended power outage or any other critical times, certain amount of risk has to be accepted if we want power.



I like to use the car example. We all drive a car of some sort, when we get in the car, there is always a chance that we will die in an accident. That's just a risk we are willing to accept. If we want zero risk, we would all be riding around in tanks to avoid accidents but then again, what if somebody's tank goes through your bedroom wall and crushes you? There are always "what if's" and it never ends.
It is a matter of risk and reward, you do have car insurance but they would look at you funny if you drove at night with out lights.
It's an emergency, why not just run two heavy extension cords and plug in the freezer for a few hours a day and the fridge most of the day. when the door would be in use.
Keep a couple milk jugs full of ice that you can put in the top of the fridge over night.
DYIer2018 likes this.

Last edited by Nealtw; 12-27-2018 at 11:10 PM.
Nealtw is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Tags
generator wiring , outlet as inlet


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two 120v power sources, automatic switch/relay NCmountainCabin Electrical 12 06-25-2018 08:24 AM
Anyone ever utilize a power inlet? RochesterBen Electrical 15 02-07-2018 08:23 AM
Testing Power Switch wpollock Electrical 11 01-27-2018 02:25 PM
California Home Power limits? (5+ computers in 1 room) jazzman170 Electrical 34 10-02-2014 10:37 AM
Where to put temporary power phil2 Building & Construction 18 05-12-2014 10:57 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts