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Old 10-31-2017, 07:26 AM   #1
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Ungrounded GFCI


So I replaced all the outlets in our kitchen as part of our "mild remodel" (house built in 1928). All but one of the outlets is grounded properly. Alas, there is no way to ground the ungrounded outlet but to try to run a ground wire to the breaker box. This would be a very difficult task.

In the following link I read that you can replace an ungrounded outlet with a GFCI outlet.

I know this will "work," but is it responsible? Does it actually meet code anywhere in this universe?

Your thoughts, please! Thanks.



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Old 10-31-2017, 07:30 AM   #2
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


Yes it is code and it works, you would just label it no ground.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:33 AM   #3
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


Yes using a GFCI receptacle is to code. They are used where normally an older two prong receptacle (non-grounded) was installed and you want to replace with a 3 prong. You can use the GFCI receptacle but need to put sticker on the receptacle face plate "No Equipment Ground" in order to pass inspection. It will provide ground fault protection even though there is no ground.

Side Note: If you install a GFCI receptacle on a non-grounded circuit a hand tester will not trip the GFCI receptacle like it would on a grounded circuit but this does not mean the GFCI is not protecting as it should,
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:42 AM   #4
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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Originally Posted by DrHicks View Post
. Alas, there is no way to ground the ungrounded outlet but to try to run a ground wire to the breaker box. This would be a very difficult task.



Your thoughts, please! Thanks.
Did you run new cable with a ground or just a ground from box to box?
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:48 AM   #5
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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Originally Posted by DrHicks View Post
So I replaced all the outlets in our kitchen as part of our "mild remodel" (house built in 1928). All but one of the outlets is grounded properly. Alas, there is no way to ground the ungrounded outlet but to try to run a ground wire to the breaker box. This would be a very difficult task.

In the following link I read that you can replace an ungrounded outlet with a GFCI outlet.

I know this will "work," but is it responsible? Does it actually meet code anywhere in this universe?

Your thoughts, please! Thanks.



https://www.familyhandyman.com/elect...c-fhm-facebook
Let me ask the real sparky's on this thread. If the OP has copper supply piping for his kitchen plumbing, would it be code correct to run a green wire from the ungrounded outlet to the cold water pipe under his sink and use a bonding clamp on that pipe?

I ask because I own 3 properties with 2 wire (no ground) wiring, and in all three, the builder or a previous owner ran a seperate ground wire from each receptacle to a Junction box in the attic, and then to the cold water pipe in the "trouble door" behind the bathtub. Is it legal to have 3 prong non-GFI receptacles using this grounding strategy?

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Old 10-31-2017, 10:24 AM   #6
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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Originally Posted by jeffmattero76 View Post
Let me ask the real sparky's on this thread. If the OP has copper supply piping for his kitchen plumbing, would it be code correct to run a green wire from the ungrounded outlet to the cold water pipe under his sink and use a bonding clamp on that pipe?

I ask because I own 3 properties with 2 wire (no ground) wiring, and in all three, the builder or a previous owner ran a seperate ground wire from each receptacle to a Junction box in the attic, and then to the cold water pipe in the "trouble door" behind the bathtub. Is it legal to have 3 prong non-GFI receptacles using this grounding strategy?

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I would politely suggest that having your location in your profile would be
helpful. If you're in Canada, I'll type in some of 26-700(7).
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:34 AM   #7
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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I would politely suggest that having your location in your profile would be
helpful. If you're in Canada, I'll type in some of 26-700(7).
I am located In Suburban Philadelphia, PA, but I don't know how to change my profile to show that, if it doesn't already. I went to SETTINGS but cannot find it.

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Old 10-31-2017, 11:17 AM   #8
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


To set the location in your profile, go to user CP. You can select it on the black bar at the top of the page.

Select "edit your details".

Scroll down to the big box labeled "Additional Information".

Location is the 4th item.

After entering the location (and/or other entries) there is a "save changes" button at the bottom of the page.
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:24 AM   #9
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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Originally Posted by Oso954 View Post
To set the location in your profile, go to user CP. You can select it on the black bar at the top of the page.

Select "edit your details".

Scroll down to the big box labeled "Additional Information".

Location is the 4th item.

After entering the location (and/or other entries) there is a "save changes" button at the bottom of the page.
Oso - sorry for my ignorance but what is user "cp"? Also I have no black bar at the top. At the top of the page I see are icons for new posts, my responses, my subscriptions. I will keep looking, but still can't seem to find it

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Old 10-31-2017, 12:07 PM   #10
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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Originally Posted by jeffmattero76 View Post
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You may have to log into the full site, not use Tapatalk on your device.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:07 PM   #11
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


I think "User CP" is user control panel.

When using a normal browser, there is black bar with white letter buttons labeled User CP, Blogs, Articles, Rewards, etc extending across the entire pagenear the top of the page. It's immediately below the box that shows your location in the forums and has the "welcome username"/notification count.

It may not appear in tapatalk or other user apps.
Try getting into the forum with a normal browser.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:24 PM   #12
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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Originally Posted by Oso954 View Post
I think "User CP" is user control panel.

When using a normal browser, there is black bar with white letter buttons labeled User CP, Blogs, Articles, Rewards, etc extending across the entire pagenear the top of the page. It's immediately below the box that shows your location in the forums and has the "welcome username"/notification count.

It may not appear in tapatalk or other user apps.
Try getting into the forum with a normal browser.
Thanks for the help, everyone. I opened tapatalk on my computer. My location showed there as Philadelphia, PA. I changed that to Media, PA and added a picture to my profile. Please check my profile and see if those changes have been accomplished. Thanks.

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Old 10-31-2017, 12:44 PM   #13
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


So far, your location doesn't show, nor do you have an avatar.
I assume that's what you meant by adding a picture.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:49 PM   #14
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


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So far, your location doesn't show, nor do you have an avatar.
I assume that's what you meant by adding a picture.
Thanks, that is what I was referring to, but I used my actual picture rather than an avitar. Perhaps it takes time to update or maybe it needs to be approved by an admin. I will try to work on it later.

What I don't understand is, before I made any of these changes, my profile showed Philadelphia as my location, when I looked at my profile, but you guys could not see it. I have changed that to Media, PA and added the picture, but will have to wait and see if it changes. Thanks for your help.

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Old 10-31-2017, 12:55 PM   #15
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Re: Ungrounded GFCI


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmattero76 View Post
Let me ask the real sparky's on this thread. If the OP has copper supply piping for his kitchen plumbing, would it be code correct to run a green wire from the ungrounded outlet to the cold water pipe under his sink and use a bonding clamp on that pipe?

I ask because I own 3 properties with 2 wire (no ground) wiring, and in all three, the builder or a previous owner ran a seperate ground wire from each receptacle to a Junction box in the attic, and then to the cold water pipe in the "trouble door" behind the bathtub. Is it legal to have 3 prong non-GFI receptacles using this grounding strategy?

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I know this used to be code approved in some locations, but I don't off-hand know of any it still is ... and it is definitely NOT Good Practice.

I had a house built in Washington State pre-WWII. Knob & Tube. Upgraded to some 2-conductor. later upgraded to some 3 conductor. Some of it had ground wires clamped to the old Iron Pipe plumbing. Someone remodelled the bathroom, which was in the center of the West side ... with PVC plumbing and ABS sewer. (Water supply was center-East wall, electric Service panel & ground rod were SW corner, kitchen & laundry also SW corner. FYI living/dining was SE corner, bedrooms North half.) Presto instant floating "ground" for half the house.
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