Taking Chances With Unlicensed Persons Doing Electrical Work - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree22Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 03-27-2019, 07:51 PM   #1
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 7,973
Rewards Points: 604
Default

Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


This is from Canada!


Mike Holt Enterprises Electrical News Source
Unlicensed Contractor Ordered to Pay $25,000

Mike HoltElectrical safety is our key concern and I'm always looking out for information that will help keep the industry safe. The following article was brought to my attention and I felt it was worth passing along. I hope you find it has value.


In Ontario, Canada, the owner and operator of M.J. Contstruction pleaded guilty and was convicted for conducting unsafe electrical work without an electrical contractor's license.

The Electrical Safety Authority (ESA) reports that Leonard Sankar pleaded guilty to 13 charges in total, including multiple counts of working without an electrical contractor's licence and not taking out an electrical permit. He also pleaded guilty to one count of unsafe electrical condition where a live wire was left hanging in the basement of a home. If someone had touched the exposed wires, they could have received a fatal shock.

Subsequent to charges being laid, but before the guilty plea, M J Construction hired a licensed electrical contractor to go to all of the locations flagged by the Electrical Safety Authority (ESA) so the electrical work could be corrected of any defects. This was done at most of the addresses and was done at the expense of M J Construction.

It should be noted that Derek Sankar, manager of M J Construction, was convicted before on June 20, 2017 of doing electrical work without an electrical contractor's licence, for failing to apply for inspection and for unsafe electrical conditions. Much of the electrical work M J Construction did at the time was found to be non-compliant with the Ontario Electrical Safety Code; there were numerous defects in the electrical work.

"Illegal electrical work puts Ontario residents at serious risk of injury," says Joel Moody, Chief Public Safety Officer, ESA. "Electrical work is hazardous and should be performed by a Licensed Electrical Contractor with the expertise, equipment and training to do the job safely."

"Electrical safety is a shared responsibility among contractors, homeowners and the public," adds Normand Breton, Registrar and Director of Contractor Licensing, ESA. "We all need to do our part and comply with the Ontario Electrical Safety Code and the associated regulations. The laws for conducting electrical work in Ontario are very clear: any business that offers or performs electrical work must be licensed by ESA. Mr. Sankar broke the law and the conviction demonstrates how seriously we, and the Courts, take such matters."

Hiring a Licensed Electrical Contractor When hiring someone to do work, homeowners and businesses are reminded to:

Ensure the contractor holds all required qualifications and licences including an ECRA/ESA
licence for electrical work. You should also ask for their references.
Check that the contractor has secured all appropriate permits and inspections.
Advise the contractor that you expect a copy of the ESA Certificate of Inspection from them once the electrical work is complete.
To verify or find a Licensed Electrical Contractor, visit findacontractor.esasafe.com.

About the Electrical Safety Authority
The Electrical Safety Authority's (ESA's) role is to enhance public electrical safety in Ontario. As an administrative authority acting on behalf of the Government of Ontario, ESA is responsible for administering specific regulations related to the Ontario Electrical Safety Code, the licensing of Electrical Contractors and Master Electricians, electricity distribution system safety, and electrical product safety. ESA works extensively with stakeholders throughout the province on education, training and promotion to foster electrical safety across the province. More information on the Electrical Safety Authority can be found at esasafe.com, through Twitter and on Facebook. ESA's Customer Service Centre can be reached at 1-877-ESA-SAFE (372-7233).
BluegrassGuy and hlopez77 like this.
__________________
Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late
The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder
I'm an over-forty victim of fate.
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-27-2019, 08:52 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,235
Rewards Points: 526
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Ouch!
BayouRunner is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-27-2019, 09:01 PM   #3
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,293
Rewards Points: 22,940
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


The ESA site has a list of convictions. You can read them all for yourself.

https://www.esasafe.com/licensing/co...ce/convictions

Last edited by joed; 03-27-2019 at 09:05 PM.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-28-2019, 03:37 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Livonia, Michigan
Posts: 330
Rewards Points: 660
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
The ESA site has a list of convictions. You can read them all for yourself.

https://www.esasafe.com/licensing/co...ce/convictions

This needs to happen here as well. I see too many electrical hack jobs that have obviously been done by unlicensed workers and handymen.
BluegrassGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 04:49 PM   #5
Usually Confused
 
lenaitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,814
Rewards Points: 1,858
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


A former colleague took a post-retirement job as an ESA investigator. He said it was steady work.
BluegrassGuy likes this.
__________________
_________________________________________
Who Dares Wins
lenaitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 05:47 PM   #6
Member
 
CodeMatters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,143
Rewards Points: 6,284
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Could be argued that the ESA has self serving interests in stopping
unlicensed/unpermitted electrical work in Ontario.
....wonder how I could punish everyone who doesn't hire me....-)
CodeMatters is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 06:24 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 1,410
Rewards Points: 1,252
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


ESA paints all DIYers as incompetent. That seems an over reaction.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MTN REMODEL LLC likes this.
curiousB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 06:25 PM   #8
Member
 
CodeMatters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,143
Rewards Points: 6,284
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


And a not so well known fact about the ESA in Ontario:
Most electrical contractors are on the ACP (approved Contractor Program) list.
This means that most of their work is not inspected. A small percentage of their
work is inspected and they're allowed to keep their ACP status as long as their
defect rate remains low....and they attend expensive ESA training periodically.
The fact that their work is not inspected does not mean that a "notification" isn't
required for every job, and of course, every notification must be paid for.
So, building owners, general contractors, etc regularly pay for "inspections" which
don't actually occur.
Not a bad business model.........
MTN REMODEL LLC likes this.
CodeMatters is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 08:04 PM   #9
Usually Confused
 
lenaitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,814
Rewards Points: 1,858
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeMatters View Post
And a not so well known fact about the ESA in Ontario:
Most electrical contractors are on the ACP (approved Contractor Program) list.
This means that most of their work is not inspected. A small percentage of their
work is inspected and they're allowed to keep their ACP status as long as their
defect rate remains low....and they attend expensive ESA training periodically.
The fact that their work is not inspected does not mean that a "notification" isn't
required for every job, and of course, every notification must be paid for.
So, building owners, general contractors, etc regularly pay for "inspections" which
don't actually occur.
Not a bad business model.........

And I'm not sure I have a problem with that. If a contractor establishes and maintains a professional reputation with the Authority it seems like a safe way to expedite the services provided by the industry, similar to contractors approved to pull and re-tag meters, or an approved furnace company allowed to replace a furnace without an on-site TSSA inspection. I don't know the ESAs funding model but something has to pay to maintain the Authority.


I'm not sure how someone can view ESA enforcement as picking on DIYers. The enforcement action listed on their website cites contractors.
__________________
_________________________________________
Who Dares Wins
lenaitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 09:40 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,734
Rewards Points: 72
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
The ESA site has a list of convictions. You can read them all for yourself.

https://www.esasafe.com/licensing/co...ce/convictions
As does TSSA and a few other enforcement agencies. They aren't afraid to take things to court when needed.

I don't particularly like their funding model. It makes them lean to heavily on "administrative fees" and "educational fees" which are quite expensive. There was a time where we didn't worry about calling out the authorities to verify the correct solution before actually doing to work. Now it's so bad, we avoid them like the plague. Other then that, they provide an important service, I'd just prefer a different method.

Cheers!
supers05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 09:10 PM   #11
Member
 
dmxtothemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 5,202
Rewards Points: 7,364
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


I dare say that a large proportion of diy work is done to a good safe level,
Many go to great lengths and care about what they do,
Only a small portion of DIY work is dangerous
And this has more to do with the individuals attitude
So no amount of rules will change those types of people
supers05 likes this.
dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 09:31 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,734
Rewards Points: 72
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
I dare say that a large proportion of diy work is done to a good safe level,
Many go to great lengths and care about what they do,
Only a small portion of DIY work is dangerous
And this has more to do with the individuals attitude
So no amount of rules will change those types of people
Lol, as evidenced by a recent thread.

Cheers!
supers05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 09:39 AM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 34
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeMatters View Post
And a not so well known fact about the ESA in Ontario:
Most electrical contractors are on the ACP (approved Contractor Program) list.
This means that most of their work is not inspected. A small percentage of their
work is inspected and they're allowed to keep their ACP status as long as their
defect rate remains low....and they attend expensive ESA training periodically.
The fact that their work is not inspected does not mean that a "notification" isn't
required for every job, and of course, every notification must be paid for.
So, building owners, general contractors, etc regularly pay for "inspections" which
don't actually occur.
Not a bad business model.........
What does this expensive training cost?

I thought it was only a code update every three years, $175
(Which should be done by all licenced electricians IMO)

Also ACP is ending this year. A new risk based oversite system is starting
John Snow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 01:08 PM   #14
Deleted Member
 
Shadow99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 442
Rewards Points: 884
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousB View Post
ESA paints all DIYers as incompetent. That seems an over reaction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not really , they allow homeowners to take out permits for their own property. They also inspect the work.

A handyman doing electrical work on other properties is not allowed, which is why they say you must use a LEC.
Shadow99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 01:09 PM   #15
Deleted Member
 
Shadow99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 442
Rewards Points: 884
Default

Re: Taking chances with unlicensed persons doing electrical work


Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
What does this expensive training cost?

I thought it was only a code update every three years, $175
(Which should be done by all licenced electricians IMO)

Also ACP is ending this year. A new risk based oversite system is starting
What are YOU doing here ?? You lost?

jbfan, John Snow and CodeMatters like this.
Shadow99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can a homeowner perform electrical work in MA? dpd512 Electrical 77 04-11-2012 06:48 AM
Does your job require a permit? housedocs General DIY Discussions 203 12-01-2010 07:28 AM
Is it right that an owner must be licensed to perform work joey b Electrical 45 12-16-2008 10:16 AM
The perfect example of who should NOT do electrical work CowboyAndy Electrical 11 05-23-2008 11:21 AM
DIY electrical work questions for finishing a basement. mac41099 Electrical 7 11-16-2007 07:59 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts