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Old 12-30-2010, 02:57 PM   #1
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Running a new line for stove in conduit on outside of house


Hi
New to posting but have used forums extensively for tips. Would appreciate input on the following:

Need to run a new line for induction cooktop (previously gas). Basement all finished, and would be difficult to run indoors. Cooktop and panel are on same side of house, ~ 45ft run required (with 3 x 90degree bends, to go around a side door).

The plan is to use PVC conduit, all above grade. Need 8-3 (40A cooktop, though have considered putting in 6-3 for future proofing??)

I have read conflicting accounts of most appropriate wire: romex, romex UF-rated, or THHN/THWN single wires.

Advice on best wire (and appropriate size PVC) greatly appreciated.

I'm in Canada, so will be exposed to rain and snow (as well as our own building code, but if i can get a practical answer i can then confirm it conforms to local code.)

Thanks in advance
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:39 PM   #2
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Running romex in pipe is difficult, and might not be legal. If it's a continuous pipe run, from one box to another, just use 'loose' wire. THHN would be my choice. Schedule 40 you can use 3/4, schedule 80 PVC you probably want to go up to 1. I'd suggest the 1" Either way, you have a handful of bends and it'd be a lot easier, and hardly any more money.

Also, if you're thinking of future upgrade, run 4 wires. 2 hot, neutral, and ground, I'm not sure which you're running, but it's nice to have the neutral if, later, you get a stove with 120V controls that needs one. Had that problem a *lot* with dryers around here. (4 wires will still fit in 1" either way.)
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:53 PM   #3
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romex cannot be run in conduit outside. Thhn is cheapest when used with pipe. PVC does not fair well above ground, so I would recommend EMT and paint, but your choice. PVC must be supported in horizontal runs ~36".

What about running thru attic?
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:12 PM   #4
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Thanks. The question re upgrade would be if we wanted to put in an under counter oven down the road... (Ie to have 6oamp capacity Its currently on the opposite wall but I never know what my wife might want 5 yrs from now. Maybe the conduit could take more wires later in the (probably unlikely) even we want them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JPraski View Post
Running romex in pipe is difficult, and might not be legal. If it's a continuous pipe run, from one box to another, just use 'loose' wire. THHN would be my choice. Schedule 40 you can use 3/4, schedule 80 PVC you probably want to go up to 1. I'd suggest the 1" Either way, you have a handful of bends and it'd be a lot easier, and hardly any more money.

Also, if you're thinking of future upgrade, run 4 wires. 2 hot, neutral, and ground, I'm not sure which you're running, but it's nice to have the neutral if, later, you get a stove with 120V controls that needs one. Had that problem a *lot* with dryers around here. (4 wires will still fit in 1" either way.)

Last edited by nocsec; 12-30-2010 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:18 PM   #5
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Thanks

3 storeys so attic not practical
What do I do with thhn going to panel (4 ft from exit wall) -- junction to romex or run the thhn right inside to panel (protected of course)

Seems like most people use pvc around here; but will look into metal option too


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Originally Posted by Saturday Cowboy View Post
romex cannot be run in conduit outside. Thhn is cheapest when used with pipe. PVC does not fair well above ground, so I would recommend EMT and paint, but your choice. PVC must be supported in horizontal runs ~36".

What about running thru attic?
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:28 PM   #6
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You mean, through the building, and then inside to breaker panel?

It must be protected. Running pipe on the inside is fine, and use the same wire, or you could put in a junction box and use NM cable. Either would work, but I'd prefer pipe for a few reasons. Aesthetics mostly, I guess, but buying another type of wire and box and blah blah for just 4 feet is kinda a PitA. A few extra feet of pipe left over from outside, and a hub to hook on the box is a lot easier IMO. Note you can't use the wall as a raceway- you need to transition to romex outside, or put the pipe through the wall. Not too big of a deal, just a little bigger hole.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:31 PM   #7
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THHN must be run in conduit. so you can pipe all the way or install jbox and change to another wiring method(romex for example).
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:39 PM   #8
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Seems you are running the conduit outside
As such it has to be THWN for outside use



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Old 12-30-2010, 04:50 PM   #9
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Thanks. Yes I think we are on the same page. Panel is 4 ft from foundation wall where wire will exit building. Run on exterior brick wall to back part of house (same wall) then enter through brick directly beneath cooktop for hookup.

So hole in briclk needs to be large enough to accomodate pvc if I understand correctly.

Any thoughts on running 6 vs 8 g to have extra capacity?

And to clarify -- thhn and not thwn appropriate for this application

Thanks again for prompt and helpful responses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPraski View Post
You mean, through the building, and then inside to breaker panel?

It must be protected. Running pipe on the inside is fine, and use the same wire, or you could put in a junction box and use NM cable. Either would work, but I'd prefer pipe for a few reasons. Aesthetics mostly, I guess, but buying another type of wire and box and blah blah for just 4 feet is kinda a PitA. A few extra feet of pipe left over from outside, and a hub to hook on the box is a lot easier IMO. Note you can't use the wall as a raceway- you need to transition to romex outside, or put the pipe through the wall. Not too big of a deal, just a little bigger hole.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:05 PM   #10
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Most wire stocked at supply houses or big boxes is dual rated THHN/THWN
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocsec View Post
Thanks. Yes I think we are on the same page. Panel is 4 ft from foundation wall where wire will exit building. Run on exterior brick wall to back part of house (same wall) then enter through brick directly beneath cooktop for hookup.
just to be sure you are not planning on running wire free once under the cooktop.

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So hole in briclk needs to be large enough to accomodate pvc if I understand correctly.
yes i recommend an LB just outside.

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Any thoughts on running 6 vs 8 g to have extra capacity?
what do you foresee needing? remember you can't have more than one appliance on one branch circuit.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:02 PM   #12
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thanks

will have junction box right on entry under cooktop (so no loose wires)

the only forseeable addition (which i doubt will ever happen) would be to move the undercounter oven from the opposite wall (where it has its own feed) to underneath the cooktop. based on the code book i have reviewed, it is allowable to run oven and cooktop off of one feed (65amp would be required) as long as they are in proximity they are considered like one appliance... (i am pretty sure on this, but would definitely clarify if i were ever to pursue in the future)


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Originally Posted by Saturday Cowboy View Post
just to be sure you are not planning on running wire free once under the cooktop.

yes i recommend an LB just outside.

what do you foresee needing? remember you can't have more than one appliance on one branch circuit.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:14 AM   #13
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it would be cheaper to upsize your conduit so that you could add another circuit later.
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:45 AM   #14
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ok -- thanks.

checked with supply houses, and the wire that is generally available is T90
is this suitable?

if so, is 1inch PVC suitable, or bigger/smaller recommended?

Thanks again
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:52 AM   #15
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I agree with that you should make sure the conduit is large enough, it's cheap. Going with larger wires is a good idea, the only drawback is expense.

If I were doing it at work, no brainer, extra cap for sure. If I were paying for it, I'd likely put the larger in too, I'd need to price, but it's not that much more copper. It saves a lot of possible headache later, and is not one iota more work. But then, I'm the sort who overdoes everything, I'll pull #12 for lighting feeds just in case I might want to change things around later and use them for 20A outlet feeds.

The questions are: How much money is it worth to you, to never use it? And how much money is it worth to you, to not need to do it again? Not only pull it all over again, but buy all new wire, instead of just paying the difference? Chances are you'd never use the old wire again, unlike some of us. It'd be scrap if you redid things and a total loss, as opposed to a partial loss (of the extra size copper only) if you never used it.
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