Replacing NM In Existing Home - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 02-22-2010, 01:24 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 764
Rewards Points: 866
Default

Replacing NM in existing home


I have a 15 amp circuit feeding a bathroom and I want to upgrade it to a 20. Can this be done without opening up the sheet rock walls and space between the first story ceiling and second story flooring?

It was wired, when it was code in the early 90's, with #14. I am thinking that I could go from station to station and connect the end of the new 12 to the end of the old 14, and then pull it through BUT PERHAPS FOR STAPLING, assuming the cable is stapled every foot and a half. If it is, and the run isn't too long, is it often possible to just tug on the cable to loosen the staples?

Assuming that can be done, do I have to open up the walls and ceiling to staple the new #12 cable to the framing.

I am trying hard to avoid opening the drywall. The newer paint in this particular room is impossible to match and I would have to repaint the entire room should I have to cut the wall.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-22-2010, 01:59 PM   #2
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,808
Rewards Points: 23,958
Blog Entries: 11
Default


You won't be able to use the old cable as a pull. It just doesn't work with the bends and staples.
Except for holes needed to fish the new cable you don't need to open the walls to staple. Fished cables are permitted to hang free inside the walls.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-22-2010, 04:28 PM   #3
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,352
Rewards Points: 910
Default


Why do you want to upgrade it to 20A are you haveing problems with tripping. If you are haveing no issues, follow the good advice that if it isn`t broken then don`t touch it.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-22-2010, 04:31 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 764
Rewards Points: 866
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
You won't be able to use the old cable as a pull. It just doesn't work with the bends and staples.
Except for holes needed to fish the new cable you don't need to open the walls to staple. Fished cables are permitted to hang free inside the walls.

Makes sense. Thanks. I have access to a fishing tape. Is it unlikely that the I will be able to fish the new 12 awg cable through the existing holes while leaving the old 14 AWG in place.

Also, how do I figure out where the cable from the panel connect into this circuit? I would think it would be at the fixture/receptacle nearest the panel and I should begin, after shutting off the breaker to that circuit, by taking a look at the cabling connecting with it. If one side is 12 and the other 14, disconnect the 12 and flip the breaker back on. If the entire circuit is out, that is station #1. Of course, if the wire in and out of #1 is 12, I check what I believe is the next nearest station and do the same. continue as such until I find where the circuit drops down to 14 and that is where I have to swap in the 12 AWG. Is this pretty close to being correct?
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 04:42 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 764
Rewards Points: 866
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Why do you want to upgrade it to 20A are you haveing problems with tripping. If you are having no issues, follow the good advice that if it isn`t broken then don`t touch it.
As is, the same circuit feeds the sole receptacle for my garage and I am getting into woodworking as a hobby. As is I have a table saw and a miter saw and will soon have a router and drill press. While usually only one power tool is on at a time, a 15 amp line is a bit light even if it makes code.

I agree with you, though, about leaving it alone if it ain't broke. Problem is I understand the reason code now requires a 20 amp circuit for an outlet in a bath because of the decreased fire danger. Is the risk so much more that I should consider the circuit broke? I don't know but am planning what I should do as long as I intend to be adding some other circuits in the garage, (A 240 and probably another 120 for the garage)
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


New code indicates 20a & feeding the bathroom(s) outlet ONLY
So if you are going to run a new circuit make it a dedicated bathroom circuit
I'd also run another 20a circuit to the garage & leave the 15a in the garage

Hair dryers can use 1500w or more - about 83% of a 15a circuit
There isn't any decreased fire danger
Danger occurs when a circuit is over loaded...extension cords are used that aren't rated for the load...loose connections, old frayed wiring...plus other issues



Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 05:25 PM   #7
Retired Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 25,728
Rewards Points: 7,174
Default


Often an ordinary pull-out ruler is handier than a fish tape inside walls...

Have fun and hello again!
oh'mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 05:56 PM   #8
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 8,150
Rewards Points: 946
Default


If you are not having trouble with the bathroom, just add another circuit to the garage.
__________________
Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late
The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder
I'm an over-forty victim of fate.
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 06:43 PM   #9
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,352
Rewards Points: 910
Default


I second jbfan, if you add a circuit to the garage you could always cap off the old plug in the garage and then the bathroom will only be on that circuit.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 07:51 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 764
Rewards Points: 866
Default


Thanks all. I think you are all on the money.

I don't think there is any reason not to and good reason to at least run the new 240 in the garage. At the same time, I will add a separate 110 line just for the garage.

As for that pesky bathroom circuit, I may just leave it be until the day I either have problems on it or it makes sense to upgrade the circuit during some remodeling.

Scuba_Dave: You are right about hairdryers. I think my wife's is lower powered, yet it is marked 1875 Watts and 125 Volts. Even with that on high heat and the lights and ceiling fans on the circuit being on, the 15 amp breaker didn't open after three minutes. Not even when I then cranked up the 12" miter saw plugged into that single garage receptacle and then cut a 4X4 fence post to put it under load. I think a couple of you guys, Joed and yourself, may have seen my posting re testing that circuit with a coffee pot, an iron, toaster oven, and the miter saw and it finally opened the breaker. I am rethinking whether that breaker is good.

Hey Oh'Mike. Gotta take care of that new saw. (I sold the old one off of Ebay to a local attorney.) Meanwhile, my crown moulding turned out rather well.

jbfan and darren: Capping off that one outlet so that I don't have to mess with this questionable circuit for the time being is a great idea.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 09:12 PM   #11
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,352
Rewards Points: 910
Default


If your bathroom circuit will be by itself, i can almost gurantee you with out doubt you will never have a problem with it. How many devices on the market have a 20A cord plug on it, very few(none that i have seen) so you will probably never draw more then 15A on that circuit.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 09:43 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 764
Rewards Points: 866
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
If your bathroom circuit will be by itself, i can almost gurantee you with out doubt you will never have a problem with it. How many devices on the market have a 20A cord plug on it, very few(none that i have seen) so you will probably never draw more then 15A on that circuit.
Without splitting hairs, I think you are right. (one could plug a hair dryer into one outlet of the duplex and an electric space heater in the other. Some idiot may use a plug in device to give them additional outlets for who know what.)

Last edited by Klawman; 02-22-2010 at 09:47 PM.
Klawman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2010, 11:06 PM   #13
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 18,808
Rewards Points: 23,958
Blog Entries: 11
Default


Not inconceivable that hair dryer and a curling iron are plugged in at the same time.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 08:10 AM   #14
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 8,150
Rewards Points: 946
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
Not inconceivable that hair dryer and a curling iron are plugged in at the same time.
Happens at my house every day!
__________________
Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late
The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder
I'm an over-forty victim of fate.
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2010, 11:14 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indiana, PA
Posts: 1,414
Rewards Points: 726
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
Happens at my house every day!

Psh, hey when you have as sister that is using a hair straightner and TWO, yes two! hair dryers simultaniously, then you have a probem... *LOL* my sister use to do that and trip the circuit every time and never figure out why when they ran together it happened...
BlueBSH is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
replace nm


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need advice on remodeling/renovating a prefab (mobile) home countrylifemom Remodeling 53 03-29-2015 08:15 PM
Moisture on windows baum Building & Construction 56 12-22-2009 05:39 PM
History of Lomonaco's Iron Concepts & Home Decor John Lomonaco New Member Introductions 0 11-08-2009 10:39 AM
!!HELP!! Rain leaking between existing home and new addition NJGirl357 Roofing/Siding 4 09-10-2008 05:06 PM
Replacing existing wall with support beam or I beam sourdough Building & Construction 4 08-06-2008 09:42 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts