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Old 01-12-2010, 02:27 PM   #1
 
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Questions about the Garage


I still have not dialed in whether I am going to install a 60 or 100 amp sub panel, hope that information is not needed for this question

The rough plan right now

16 x 20 Garage

I am sure of the code on all this.

- I want to have 1 ceiling fan in the back middle of the garage

- I want to have 18 - 20 canned recessed lights

- I want to have one outlet for 220v (not often used and not a must have)

- Would love to have outlets every 4 feet if I could but I do not how realistic that is, is there a rough rule that one should live by when it comes to outlets and how many you can put on a breaker

Any advice is welcome.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:21 PM   #2
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Well.....now I'm planning on putting a ceiling fan in the back of my garage - maybe 2 since it is 24' wide
Thanks for the idea

18-20 recessed lights - I'm also planning on recessed lights - maybe not that many
I'm planning on using 13w CFL's for mine
If you use 60w/75w bulbs * 20 = 1500w Max - so these could go on a 15a circuit

A 240v outlet is a good idea
But without a specific device in mind.....20a, 30a 50a ?

My 24x36 addition has outlets every 4-6' - very practical
My garage will have them the same distance
The back work bench will have quads installed
Possibly single gang....4'...then a quad....4' single....4' quad
Undecided

Number of outlets is unrestricted
But a good idea to have at least 2 circuits in the garage, depends upon size of garage & use



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Old 01-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #3
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What is the garage going to be used for?
A wood shop, storage room, a man cave?
The answer helps determine the number of receptales needed or want on each circuit.
A 240 receptacle is a task specific device, not just some genaric thing.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:15 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Well.....now I'm planning on putting a ceiling fan in the back of my garage - maybe 2 since it is 24' wide
Thanks for the idea

18-20 recessed lights - I'm also planning on recessed lights - maybe not that many
I'm planning on using 13w CFL's for mine
If you use 60w/75w bulbs * 20 = 1500w Max - so these could go on a 15a circuit

A 240v outlet is a good idea
But without a specific device in mind.....20a, 30a 50a ?

My 24x36 addition has outlets every 4-6' - very practical
My garage will have them the same distance
The back work bench will have quads installed
Possibly single gang....4'...then a quad....4' single....4' quad
Undecided

Number of outlets is unrestricted
But a good idea to have at least 2 circuits in the garage, depends upon size of garage & use
Thanks for the knowledge, I like the idea of the CFL, they run for ever dont use to much power and seem to be very inexpensive to run

So I can go 13 watt for the CFl x 20 Lights = 260 watts + a Ceiling Fan (I will say this Glendale, link below) it uses 3 - 13 watt cfl so that would be

13 watts x 23 lights = 299 watts and with a 15 amp breaker I have 1500 watts? Correct?

But that is not taking into affect the power needed for the fan itself, any idea how to figure that out?

http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fa...atalogId=10053
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:17 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
What is the garage going to be used for?
A wood shop, storage room, a man cave?
The answer helps determine the number of receptales needed or want on each circuit.
A 240 receptacle is a task specific device, not just some genaric thing.
Its going to be as a quilt room, altough they want to make it open to being a wood shop or just garage one day.

More outlets the better.

I am looking to buy this welder that runs 220 this would be the specific unit.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

According to the specs it needs 20a so then i need a breaker specific for this one outlet and the breaker needs to be 20a.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:21 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post

My 24x36 addition has outlets every 4-6' - very practical
My garage will have them the same distance
The back work bench will have quads installed
Possibly single gang....4'...then a quad....4' single....4' quad
Undecided

Number of outlets is unrestricted
But a good idea to have at least 2 circuits in the garage, depends upon size of garage & use
Looking at 60 amp sub panel (maybe 100 amp but right now I am hoping for the 60 amp panel)

How many normal outlets can you put on a breaker? Is this a code issue?

At the HD and Lowes I have not looked to closely but I swear I have seen 115v outlets and 120v outlets, am i correct?

Is there a code issue into the respect of how high, because it is a quilt room and would be the same with a work bench would be nice to have the outlets up 40'' or so unlike in a home were they are what 12'' of the F.F.???

thanks all
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:01 PM   #7
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A 15a breaker is 1800w - plenty of power for your lights & overhead fan

For the 20a you would run 240v 20a breaker is that is what it specs out as
You only need 12g wire for 20a, but I might be inclined to run #10

Number of outlets is unrestricted on a circuit
I do 2 circuits as a min
outlet #1...circuit #1.....then next outlet is circuit #2......then circuit #1 etc etc
Basically you look at the load/possible load you will be running & go from there
Outlets should all be rated 120v...some may say 115v...its all the same

My garage the outlets will all be up at least 3' from the floor
There isn't any general height restriction - only in a kitchen "x" inches (18"?) Max above the counter



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Old 01-12-2010, 05:33 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
A 15a breaker is 1800w - plenty of power for your lights & overhead fan

For the 20a you would run 240v 20a breaker is that is what it specs out as
You only need 12g wire for 20a, but I might be inclined to run #10

Number of outlets is unrestricted on a circuit
I do 2 circuits as a min
outlet #1...circuit #1.....then next outlet is circuit #2......then circuit #1 etc etc
Basically you look at the load/possible load you will be running & go from there
Outlets should all be rated 120v...some may say 115v...its all the same

My garage the outlets will all be up at least 3' from the floor
There isn't any general height restriction - only in a kitchen "x" inches (18"?) Max above the counter
Would a panel like this work, although it says generator in the title???

http://www.lowes.com:80/pd_28277-296...ategoryDisplay

I think I would run 10 gauge just to be sure

So it would be

20 amp for the 220 welder
15 amp for the lights and the fan
15 amp for the circuits
15 amp for the circuits
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65 amps is bigger then the 60 amp box

Solution??

Why would you go back and forth every other one like that?

I am new to this but doesnt that make it a pain to wire up?

Thanks all
Mike
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonbc View Post
20 amp for the 220 welder
15 amp for the lights and the fan
15 amp for the circuits
15 amp for the circuits
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65 amps is bigger then the 60 amp box

Mike
Mike , you do not add the breakers or circuits up to find your panel load.
You check the equipment loads out you are going to use + your lighting loads, say for your lights you would use the max bulb size for each light, and the easiest way for each of your receptacles 1.5 amps each as a general rule.

You see if you just added circuits up, say you had a 200 amp panel with 10 - 20a circuits would = 200 amps. Where would you put your range,dryer,DW,furnace, a/c. See the problem with trying to size a panel this way.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonbc View Post
Would a panel like this work, although it says generator in the title???

http://www.lowes.com:80/pd_28277-296...ategoryDisplay

I think I would run 10 gauge just to be sure

So it would be

20 amp for the 220 welder
15 amp for the lights and the fan
15 amp for the circuits
15 amp for the circuits
___________________________

65 amps is bigger then the 60 amp box

Solution??

Why would you go back and forth every other one like that?

I am new to this but doesnt that make it a pain to wire up?

Thanks all
Mike
I've always used a 100a 20 space Main breaker panel as a sub with a 60a feed
Plenty of room just in case

Yes its more wire to to alternate the outlets/circuits
Not a pain to wire up as you are skipping every other outlet with each circuit
But on a 24' wall it only takes an extra 24' of wire
And places 2 circuits within 4' of each other at all times
You could use 12-3 wire & a 240v breaker & run a MWBC - multi-wire branch circuit
But I prefer seperate breakers & wire

I did the same alternating circuit in my great room along 24' wall & then down 17' of the side wall
I'll do the same on the other side of the great room



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Old 01-12-2010, 08:28 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeone View Post
Mike , you do not add the breakers or circuits up to find your panel load.
You check the equipment loads out you are going to use + your lighting loads, say for your lights you would use the max bulb size for each light, and the easiest way for each of your receptacles 1.5 amps each as a general rule.

You see if you just added circuits up, say you had a 200 amp panel with 10 - 20a circuits would = 200 amps. Where would you put your range,dryer,DW,furnace, a/c. See the problem with trying to size a panel this way.
haha, yea that makes a lot more sense.

Thank you. I will go and try and figure it out and post my calculations.

Thanks all.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:39 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I've always used a 100a 20 space Main breaker panel as a sub with a 60a feed
Plenty of room just in case

Yes its more wire to to alternate the outlets/circuits
Not a pain to wire up as you are skipping every other outlet with each circuit
But on a 24' wall it only takes an extra 24' of wire
And places 2 circuits within 4' of each other at all times
You could use 12-3 wire & a 240v breaker & run a MWBC - multi-wire branc circuit
But I prefer seperate breakers & wire

I did the same alternating circuit in my great room along 24' wall & then down 17' of the side wall
I'll do the same on the other side of the great room
Scuba Dave

Thank you, so would you recommend a box like this

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053

In the middle of the panel above all the breaker spots is where this breaker would go into, even though it is a 100 amp service panel.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

or is this one recommended

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

Or would you guys recommend something else???
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:45 PM   #13
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I use Square D QO panels & breakers since my existing panel was Square D QO
Square D makes the QO model & the HOM model
Breakers can't be mixed from one to the other

I prefer all the panels to be the same Mfg



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Old 01-12-2010, 08:48 PM   #14
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Here's some thoughts I came to and how I did my garage/workshop.

You may have a 20a welder today, and change it to something that needs 30a in the future. I would wire all your 240v tool outlets with #10 - this way you can put either a 20a or 30a breaker and the appropriate recepticle, now or in the future.

I installed three 240v circuits - one 30a for a heater, and then a 20a and 30a for tools.

I would suggest to have your 120v outlets on several circuits. I set all mine as doubled and with dedicated breaker to each. This way I don't have to worry with what high amp usage device I plug in where.

Lights can be 15a circuits. I put in two - one for interior and another for exterior lights.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:56 PM   #15
 
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Well thank you everyone.

Has given me a lot to think about, so back to the drawing board and I will see what I can do.
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