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Old 05-09-2010, 02:31 PM   #1
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Power For My Lake Lot


Power for my lake lot. My home sits across the township road from my lake lot. I have a bore under the road and conduit in place. I am about to run 200 amp service wire to the lake lot from my meter ped. I have a 100 amp rain-tight c/b box that I used when I had a meter on the lake lot. I got tired of two meter charges and am doing it all from one meter now. The run is very long and I am only planning on 100 amp max draw.

What I would like to have is two load centers. One near the road (on the lake side) for a lake pump for yard watering (220 v 15 amp) and possibly one 20 amp gfi outlet. The other would be my 100 amp panel. The distance between the first and second panel is about 200 feet. The distance between the meter ped and the first panel is about 400 feet. How do I do this? I live in Minnesota, if it makes a difference for code issues.

Attached is a picture of the lot with my house in the back ground across the road. You can see the old pole with overhead wires near the front of the picture. That pole is gone now, but that is where I am going to put the second panel (100 amp.) The first panel is going to be near the birch trees.
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:46 PM   #2
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I am guessing the first panel could be a 125 amp then make the second panel a 100 amp sub.

Is there such thing as a through panel? Where the second panel is not a sub of the first? The first is more of a junction box, with a small 40 amp panel connected to it. Or maybe some kind of service disconnect as the first and use it as a junction box?

For the second panel I do want to have a 30 amp 120 volt RV outlet and a 50 amp 120 volt RV outlet and two 20 amp GFI outlets. Only one RV outlet would be used at a time.
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:51 PM   #3
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your getting into a whole different world by running a couple panels. each one is going to have to have a new earth ground. I'm assuming that your building sheds for these to go in? Most likely they'll have to be gfci protected as well. Not sure on the code for your area though. If your trying to keep the two panels seperate then you could pop in a splitter and run your 40amp feed to one panel and take the 100a feed to the other. Seems like alot of work though when you could just run one panel off the other one. install a 125A loadcenter at the first location and a 100A loadcenter at the second. much cheaper this way for sure.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:41 AM   #4
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I like simple. 125 amp with a 100 amp sub will work. I just thought there might be a more economical way.

I understand that I will need an earth ground at each panel.

No sheds. Each panel will be on a pair of posts with a half sheet of ¾ plywood. Yes, they will be rain tight panels.

Tell me more about a “splitter” or can you give me link to a picture of one? I Googled it, but just found stuff for TV’s

Thank you,
Cody
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:03 AM   #5
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Is this the kind of splitter you are talking about?
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ite...BaseItem=5A672

Can I put one 2/0 wire in the top and 2 smaller wires out the bottom? Can I put this inside of a 40 amp panel?
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:53 AM   #6
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Get three bids from qualified contractors and let them do this. This not a DIY project. You will never get the wire size you need into a 125 amp panel to start with. The 100 amp feeder breaker will never accept the wire. With the road in between structures I think two meters is the way to go, unless you own the road. If you own the road, you need to start thinking about what size service upgrade you will need at the primary structure.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
This not a DIY project.
Sure it it, every thing can be. The few times I have hired contractors or service professionals to work on my home I have been disappointed. What I need to find is a master electrician who is willing to be my mentor. My grandfather thought me the basics, then he gave me a basic home electrical book which I read. F16 avionics school helped a lot. Now maybe it is time to get a NEC book and read it cover to cover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
start thinking about what size service upgrade you will need at the primary structure.
All ready did that. Earlier I said the 2/0 wire was coming from the meter ped, I didn’t want to get into great detail but the 2/0 wire comes from a 600amp rain-tight service disconnect which is feed by 320 amp service from the meter ped. One set of 320 wires run to my house (200 amp service), one set of 2/0 wires will run to my lake lot. One set of 2 gauge wires run to my loafing shed. When my garage is done one set of 320 wire will make that run for 200 amp service.

Now like I was saying earlier, I was disappointed by the electrical contractors that installed this. I hired them because they were working with the utility company when the utility company was burying there overhead power transmission lines. They were not even half done when I realized I could have done this myself. The guys doing the work had to call back to the office and ask their master electrician on how to some of this stuff. I could have called and asked someone. All this and they still didn’t pass the first inspection. They missed that the ground does not go through the switch.

I will DIY that way I don’t have to pay $150 / hr for mistakes. (2 electricians billed at $75/hr)
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:14 AM   #8
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I talked to my electrical inspector. He told be how to wire my like lot and use two service panels. The first one should be a mobile home disconnect with flow through wiring provisions and spots for C/B. Something like this, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H5R1RI/ref=asc_df_B000H5R1RI1116259?smid=A1FWOG4NHCL26V&t ag=shopzilla_rev_266-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000H 5R1RI
So that means I can run 2/0 wire all the way to the second c/b panel.
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Old 05-15-2010, 08:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studhauler View Post
Sure it it, every thing can be. The few times I have hired contractors or service professionals to work on my home I have been disappointed. What I need to find is a master electrician who is willing to be my mentor. My grandfather thought me the basics, then he gave me a basic home electrical book which I read. F16 avionics school helped a lot. Now maybe it is time to get a NEC book and read it cover to cover.




All ready did that. Earlier I said the 2/0 wire was coming from the meter ped, I didn’t want to get into great detail but the 2/0 wire comes from a 600amp rain-tight service disconnect which is feed by 320 amp service from the meter ped. One set of 320 wires run to my house (200 amp service), one set of 2/0 wires will run to my lake lot. One set of 2 gauge wires run to my loafing shed. When my garage is done one set of 320 wire will make that run for 200 amp service.

Now like I was saying earlier, I was disappointed by the electrical contractors that installed this. I hired them because they were working with the utility company when the utility company was burying there overhead power transmission lines. They were not even half done when I realized I could have done this myself. The guys doing the work had to call back to the office and ask their master electrician on how to some of this stuff. I could have called and asked someone. All this and they still didn’t pass the first inspection. They missed that the ground does not go through the switch.

I will DIY that way I don’t have to pay $150 / hr for mistakes. (2 electricians billed at $75/hr)
How do you bury overhead tranmission lines?
Are you considering voltage drop?
Are you using Cu or Al conductors?
I would advise against using plywood, even treated plywood as your panel backers. Something like 5/4 treated deck boards will last far longer than plywood.

Last edited by brric; 05-15-2010 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:23 AM   #10
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Sounds like you are in for trouble. Some people think electrical work is so damn easy. I will guarantee that you will end up spending more money and more time on this than you would if you just hired a licensed qualified electrical contractor. Get a contract.
Mistakes? You are the one making the biggest one right now. And for one your inspector does not know squat. That is why he is an inspector.

If you know how to do all this why are you here asking for help?
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:23 AM   #11
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How do you bury overhead tranmission lines?
I don't, the co-op does. They got sick of trimming all the trees and all the outages because of trees falling on their lines, so they put them underground.


Are you considering voltage drop?
Yes, that is why the longer runs use a larger size wire than they would for a shorter run.

Are you using Cu or Al conductors?
Al, properly sized. Why do you ask?

I would advise against using plywood, even treated plywood as your panel backers. Something like 5/4 treated deck boards will last far longer than plywood.
Because this is what the electrical contractor recommend when I did the prep work for them installing my shut-off switch. This is just one more reason to be disappointed in their work. I like the idea of 5/4, now that you mentioned it. I will use it for future projected.


Sounds like you are in for trouble. Some people think electrical work is so damn easy. I will guarantee that you will end up spending more money and more time on this than you would if you just hired a licensed qualified electrical contractor. Get a contract.
How are you willing to guarantee this? I will take the guarantee, if you are willing.

Mistakes? You are the one making the biggest one right now. And for one your inspector does not know squat. That is why he is an inspector.
That could be, BUT he is the boss, unless I can prove him wrong. Some help would be good instead of criticism.


If you know how to do all this why are you here asking for help?
Why does this forum even exist then? I know how to do the physical part, just don’t know the code.

Some people think electrical work is so damn easy
It is, but an education is not, that is what I am trying to get here. If I don’t get it here, I am going somewhere else.

Thank you for everyone that helped me.
Cody

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
-Robert A. Heinlein
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