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Old 12-28-2019, 10:57 PM   #31
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Re: Pool light electrical safety


I suggest you leave it there and tie it to the new ground wire.
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:58 PM   #32
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I suggest you leave it there and tie it to the new ground wire.
Tie the bonding system to the ground from the panel?
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Old 12-28-2019, 11:15 PM   #33
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Re: Pool light electrical safety


I would. It was before when it was bonded to the metal box.
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:40 AM   #34
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Re: Pool light electrical safety


I suggest that the OP checks out the following site and at least some of the references which it contains.
https://www.mikeholt.com/swimmingpoolbonding.php
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Old 12-29-2019, 01:49 AM   #35
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I suggest that the OP checks out the following site and at least some of the references which it contains.
https://www.mikeholt.com/swimmingpoolbonding.php
The only question I had remaining was if I needed to connect the bonding system to the grounding at the panel. After reading this link I don't believe that I do. In fact I wouldn't want to be in a pool when a fault happens if the bonding and the grounding are connected.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.elect...-3969/%3famp=1
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Old 12-29-2019, 03:57 AM   #36
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Re: Pool light electrical safety


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Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
The only question I had remaining was if I needed to connect the bonding system to the grounding at the panel. After reading this link I don't believe that I do. In fact I wouldn't want to be in a pool when a fault happens if the bonding and the grounding are connected.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.elect...-3969/%3famp=1
From your reference:-
2002 NEC specifically states "This section (680.26) does not require that the 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode."

However, this does not prevent the installation of such a bonding conductor.

Because of the existence of (Protective Earth) Grounding conductors to the metal casings of any electrical equipment associated with any pool, and these casings will require "Equipotential Bonding" to the pool structure etc., there will be a default equipotential bond to the "Ground" of the premises, which is a desirable situation.
This is similar to the way in which equipotential bonding of metal water and gas pipes - to the Grounding system - is usually required at any premises.

While an additional "8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor" is not required, it will do no harm.

(One must hope that no one is suggesting that the equipotential bonded pool area should be insulated from the remainder of the equipotential bonding at the same premises!)
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:19 AM   #37
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Re: Pool light electrical safety


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So I'm 99.99% sure that the equipotential system is completely independent of the home wiring.

farmerjohn1324 0.01% unsure is still too dangerous when it comes to bonding/grounding a pool correctly. That 0.01% "unsure" could kill someone. I think you should leave this project to a pool professional who has detailed knowledge and experience of the proper way to bond/ground the pool for safety. I don't even mess with swimming pools. I have turned down a few jobs just for the mention of a swimming pool. This is no place for guess work. Your few hours of reading on the internet about this will not make up for years of experience and knowledge from an expert.
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:52 PM   #38
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Is there a better way to put a single wire into a junction box/conduit system than this? This is called a water-tight connector. You tighten the nut and it squeezes at rubber part but it doesn't exactly get tight enough and I can still pull the wire out. I was going to put some spray foam in there to make it better but I suppose I could use a strain relief and some spray foam as well. I know there's no way to get this perfect.
Attached Thumbnails
Pool light electrical safety-20191229_180356_1577663360950.jpg   Pool light electrical safety-20191229_180551_1577663414473.jpg   Pool light electrical safety-20191229_180617_1577663483568.jpg  
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:53 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by afjes2015 View Post
Quote:
So I'm 99.99% sure that the equipotential system is completely independent of the home wiring.

farmerjohn1324 0.01% unsure is still too dangerous when it comes to bonding/grounding a pool correctly. That 0.01% "unsure" could kill someone. I think you should leave this project to a pool professional who has detailed knowledge and experience of the proper way to bond/ground the pool for safety. I don't even mess with swimming pools. I have turned down a few jobs just for the mention of a swimming pool. This is no place for guess work. Your few hours of reading on the internet about this will not make up for years of experience and knowledge from an expert.
After reading other sources, I am 100% certain that the pool bonding system does not have to be connected to the house grounding at the panel. Even though it most likely already is at the pool pump.
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:57 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
The only question I had remaining was if I needed to connect the bonding system to the grounding at the panel. After reading this link I don't believe that I do. In fact I wouldn't want to be in a pool when a fault happens if the bonding and the grounding are connected.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.elect...-3969/%3famp=1
From your reference:-
2002 NEC specifically states "This section (680.26) does not require that the 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode."

However, this does not prevent the installation of such a bonding conductor.

Because of the existence of (Protective Earth) Grounding conductors to the metal casings of any electrical equipment associated with any pool, and these casings will require "Equipotential Bonding" to the pool structure etc., there will be a default equipotential bond to the "Ground" of the premises, which is a desirable situation.
This is similar to the way in which equipotential bonding of metal water and gas pipes - to the Grounding system - is usually required at any premises.

While an additional "8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor" is not required, it will do no harm.

(One must hope that no one is suggesting that the equipotential bonded pool area should be insulated from the remainder of the equipotential bonding at the same premises!)
Are you saying that an arc might occur between the equipotential of the pool and the equipotential of the house (foundation reinforcement, etc.). In any event, this bonding and grounding has already been connected at the pool pump so anything I do here won't make any effect.

I think I'm just worrying about nothing here, but even more than that arc I described earlier, I would be concerned about if a breaker doesn't do its job and then a surge goes into the bonding system which includes the pool water.
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:01 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Is there a better way to put a single wire into a junction box/conduit system than this? This is called a water-tight connector. You tighten the nut and it squeezes at rubber part but it doesn't exactly get tight enough and I can still pull the wire out. I was going to put some spray foam in there to make it better but I suppose I could use a strain relief and some spray foam as well. I know there's no way to get this perfect.
In other words, I'm trying to do this (picture attached) except it's in a wet location.
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Pool light electrical safety-3lu82_1577664097397.jpg  
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:25 PM   #42
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This cover doesn't seem to be watertight. What else is it supposed to connect to if not to one of these weatherproof boxes? It has four screw in the corner that seems like they might be able to punch out but the plastic is so thick there I don't think that's how they're designed.
Attached Thumbnails
Pool light electrical safety-20191229_202125_1577669037978.jpg   Pool light electrical safety-20191229_202130_1577669077275.jpg   Pool light electrical safety-20191229_202136_1577669115204.jpg  
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Old 12-29-2019, 11:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
This cover doesn't seem to be watertight. What else is it supposed to connect to if not to one of these weatherproof boxes? It has four screw in the corner that seems like they might be able to punch out but the plastic is so thick there I don't think that's how they're designed.
Never mind. There was a foam piece that fell out of the package that I didn't see. It's all good now.
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:19 AM   #44
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Re: Pool light electrical safety


Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Are you saying that an arc might occur between the equipotential of the pool and the equipotential of the house (foundation reinforcement, etc.). In any event, this bonding and grounding has already been connected at the pool pump so anything I do here won't make any effect.

I think I'm just worrying about nothing here, but even more than that arc I described earlier, I would be concerned about if a breaker doesn't do its job and then a surge goes into the bonding system which includes the pool water.
No. I am not writing anything like that and of course the bonding will take place via the Ground connection of the pool pump casing - provided that it stays in existence and is in good condition. (One must hope that is not just a plug-in connection which might be disconnected.)

However just imagine that you have an equipotential bonded situation around a pool and
an equipotential bonded domestic premises
BUT, somehow(?),
these two bonded areas are NOT bonded together and therefore may not be at the same "level" (i.e. Voltage)
Now, imagine that you are in one or other of these equipotential bonded areas at its potential and someone else is in the other at that areas potential, you are within reach of each other and you touch.

The voltage will be equalized by your touching but that may be uncomfortable (or worse).
Of course, any such problem would be obviated by ensuring that all areas at any premises are equipotentially bonded.


A circuit breaker's only JOB is to operate on an overload condition to protect household wiring from damage and a possible fire producing situation - which involves many amperes.
However, an RCD/GFCI will/should operate on a small Line/Neutral imbalance current of only a few milliamperes which (hopefully) is less than that which may kill you.
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:23 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrodoOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Are you saying that an arc might occur between the equipotential of the pool and the equipotential of the house (foundation reinforcement, etc.). In any event, this bonding and grounding has already been connected at the pool pump so anything I do here won't make any effect.

I think I'm just worrying about nothing here, but even more than that arc I described earlier, I would be concerned about if a breaker doesn't do its job and then a surge goes into the bonding system which includes the pool water.
No. I am not writing anything like that and of course the bonding will take place via the Ground connection of the pool pump casing - provided that it stays in existence and is in good condition. (One must hope that is not just a plug-in connection which might be disconnected.)

However just imagine that you have an equipotential bonded situation around a pool and
an equipotential bonded domestic premises
BUT, somehow(?),
these two bonded areas are NOT bonded together and therefore may not be at the same "level" (i.e. Voltage)
Now, imagine that you are in one or other of these equipotential bonded areas at its potential and someone else is in the other at that areas potential, you are within reach of each other and you touch.

The voltage will be equalized by your touching but that may be uncomfortable (or worse).
Of course, any such problem would be obviated by ensuring that all areas at any premises are equipotentially bonded.


A circuit breaker's only JOB is to operate on an overload condition to protect household wiring from damage and a possible fire producing situation - which involves many amperes.
however, an RCD/GFCI will/should operate on a small Line/Neutral imbalance current of only a few milliamperes which (hopefully) is less than that which may kill you.
Ok. Well it should all be good now.
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