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Old 01-26-2010, 08:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Chevyman30571 View Post
Are you talking about how I said to leave the wire reallylong? All i meant by that was so that he would have enough to work with. than he would trim the excess off. I am not going to waste my time with this. I have better things to do.
It is not a safe practice, and was discontinued when house fires started to get more notoriety, and standards where more heavily enforced. There is a limit to how much can be left as a Pigtail, or as you called it, a Rabbit ear.

Code is there for a reason, not only to protect from loss of property & life, but to protect those that do the trade for a profession. I was taught the proper way from my father, and even more so in the Navy as a ICC tech. You never cut corners, let alone use unsafe practices such as you stated (take dykes/strippers and push insulation in the middle, then crimp/wrap the stripped wire around it).



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Old 01-26-2010, 09:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by adpanko View Post
You literally would have to cut four strips of wire, pigtail them all together with the hot coming into the box, and then connect the end of each to a switch. You can't strip the middle of a wire - against code. You can only strip and connect ends. I think stripping the middle of wires may have been allowed decades ago , but definitely not now.
Please give the Code Article!
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:17 PM   #18
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Does it really matter? It is not a safe practice, and has been discontinued because of the factor that it can cause problems with failed terminations, and arcing if the covering (ie tape wrap) fails. How would you plan on protecting the connection, heat shrink is good, but most inspectors may not like it, because of the way the term point is not up to their liking.



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Old 01-26-2010, 09:25 PM   #19
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People need to back up their statements with facts. If they cant then it nots truth. In our jurisdiction if you cant back it up you cant turn it down.
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:26 PM   #20
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Code states that it has to be mechanically bonded in this situation, so as to make a solid connection point between ends, and twisting around the bare conductor, without some form of mechanical device (ie crimp, or wire nut) is not a proper termination of the pigtail. Again, without some type of crimp band, or wire nut on the connection, how do you plan on not having it come apart, and creating a hazardous situation? Stating that code needs to be cited is basically stating that you feel that what ever flies no matter if from knowledge or working practices, should be always backed up with the proper code section.

This is not a test, nor is it a practice on who knows more then the other person. This whole sit is for DIY, and yes safe practices should always be taught, but stating over and over that code should always be cited when a reply or post is made, chases off those that come to ask a simple question.



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Old 01-26-2010, 11:10 PM   #21
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I never said to use dykes or linesmans. I said to use strippers. Also he said he was using the main feed. So i am assuming that it is not cut yet. If it is not long enough than i would use seperate pigtails. But if the feed is not cut than i would make the hot long to rabbit ear itand cut the excess. I was obviously taught wrong and i do this everyday for the past 5 years. So i guess I was not taught the most recent code either. And I just took a class on the nec code and this was brought up for discussion and the teacher who has been an Licensed electrician for the past 28 years said it is perfectly legal. You know what, people do things differently, others do not have to follow it. But I would still like you to show me where in the Nec code book it says this. You can tell all of us that this is not legal until you are blue in the face but nobody will believe you until you prove it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:20 AM   #22
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A splice is only legal when done properly as described. Illegal when wrapped and taped. I can do 4-5 pigtails in the time that it takes someone to move the insulation in the middle of a feed, prep the two parts, wrap the pigtail around the area, then crimp the ring and then dress. It can take 15-20 mins to properly do a splice, where as with a pigtail, it only takes about 2-3 min's to cut the ends, strip the 1" off, apply the cap and then move on to the next. Now if you are talking connecting the outlet or light switch, add another min in there.



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Old 01-27-2010, 07:07 AM   #23
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If the wire is tight around the screw then it meets code & is legal (as far as I know)
If there is a code section that indicates you can't do this then I'd like to know what it is
If the wire is one piece coming from the feed & wraps around each screw then on to the next screw there isn't any pigtail & a wire nut is not needed

I'd never do it myself, takes too long IMO
One reason I bought a code book 5 years ago was to seperate what is & is not code
I was tired of hearing what someone was taught to do or someone said you could or could not do



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Old 01-27-2010, 07:10 AM   #24
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I agree on moving the insulation to be able to wrap around the screws, which I hate myself as a way of doing things. Pigtails are easier to the best way to go.



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Old 01-27-2010, 09:24 AM   #25
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As an AHJ I do not allow this method when I do inspections and I refer the electrician to Article 300-14 (Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points) of NEC 2008.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:41 AM   #26
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As an AHJ I do not allow this method when I do inspections and I refer the electrician to Article 300-14 (Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points) of NEC 2008.
Then you are wrong... the article gives a minimum length (at least 6 in), it does not give a maximum. You could leave 3 ft of conductor if you wanted too. Under your logic, leaving one bare wire long in order to use a greenie is a violation.

gregzoll: we are talking about stripping insulation along the conductor and wrapping that around a screw, NOT making a midpoint splice with a short length of wire.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #27
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I just read 300.14 too
It specifies at least 6" free conductor, from each outlet, junction or splice point for splices or connection of luminaires or devices

I don't see anything on where it indicates a specific connection method after that



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Old 01-27-2010, 10:03 AM   #28
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As I see it as long as there is sufficient wire between the rabbit ears to meet 300-14 it is not a code violation. There would be no more exposed bare wire than a pig tail so it is not a safety concern and you have a least the same mechanically sound connection as using a pigtail. I find nothing in the NEC to disqualify its use. However inspectors interpretation of code may override actual code.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:44 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Chevyman30571 View Post
It is called rabbit ears. All you need to do is get your wire stripper, not linesmans or dikes and Make sure the wire is really long coming out of the 4 gang box. Now take your wire strippers where you want to make the rabbit ear and squeeze and push the insulation towards the end if the wire i would say prob around 1/2 inch or a llitle more. Now put that around the screw terminal and move on to your next switch. just repeat the steps until you are done. you want to leave a little in between the switches for access but this should help you out.
Never heard the term "rabbit ears" but I am very familiar with the practice. Its a great way to supply a hot conductor to multiple devices. I would rather use this method than having several wires under one wirenut.

Where/What is the article that says this is a violation? I have never seen one or even been questioned about the compliance of this practice.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:07 PM   #30
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It really falls under the gray area of preferred methods. Some areas may accept it as a acceptable practice, where as other areas may not.



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