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Old 04-07-2019, 04:08 PM   #16
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Do you have more than one circuit feeding the detached structure/garage?
That is code violation.

Only one feeder or one branch circuit is allowed. I see to many wires in your pictures.
Exactly how many wires go from the house to the garage.

Oh....If this is not in conduit the whole way, you also have another violation. Those are THHN/THWN wires and must be contained in a conduit.

I don't think so, I only see those sets of wires in a conduit going into the garage. I'm pretty sure its the brown cable on the panel. But coming out of the house conduit is 3 hot (red) 14 awg wires, 3 neutral (white) 14 awg wires and one ground ( black) but on the panel attached to the 40 amp are 2 thicker red and black wires. There must be a junction box somewhere perhaps that cant be seen.

I will have to dig down to see if they're in a conduit.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:14 PM   #17
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Re: No power to detached garage


Canadian code does not restrict the number of circuits feeding a garage.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:15 PM   #18
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
Quite a bit of strangeness going on there. You should only have one circuit feeding a detached structure. If those wires to the garage that shorted out are #14 awg, they should be on a 15 amp breaker not a 40.
I'm pretty sure its only one circuit feeding the garage as I don't see any where else there's a conduit going into the garage.

Its a bit confusing because the wires coming out the 40amp breakers are thicker than 14 awg but I'm sure that breaker powers the garage and also the 2 15amp breakers labelled for the garage might be mislabelled as I shut that breaker off but I don't have any kind off power loss in the house so I'm kinda stumped as to what that breaker powers.

Gonna have to do a bit of investigating.

Last edited by Spydey; 04-07-2019 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:24 PM   #19
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by circuitman View Post
like someone has said should be one set of wires to the garage ,preferably a subpanel. also that FPE panel is a bad one , known to cause fires.that is proably why the wires burnt up.
I'm pretty sure the panel was installed when the house was built in the around early 1970s. I don't think the electrical in the house was properly installed as a couple receptacles in the kitchen trip a breaker when 2 are used at the same time. A microwave and an electrical kettle and or toaster oven used at the same time would trip it usually. There's no GFCI outlets in the house anywhere. Also all the wires are mostly aluminum. I had to change all the marettes to aluminum compatible ones in the receptacles as one almost caught on fire one time.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:29 PM   #20
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
Canadian FPE is different from the FPE from the US. Plus the OP said his breakers were tripped so they did their job.

Also, I donít believe there is a Canadian code about only running one circuit to a separate garage. (OP is from Canada) although I do agree with others that it should be a single feed and if itís going to be replaced anyway, I would run a larger single feed and install a small panel in garage.
I think I should replace the wiring. I'm not an electrician by no means but I think I can accomplish the job. What size sub-panel would be recommended for a double car garage? the house panel is 100amp.
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:08 PM   #21
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Re: No power to detached garage


I don't think a sub-panel is necessary as there's no large load appliance or machinery that I use or run in the garage. Most power consuming appliance would probably be the garage door openers. What do most of you think?
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:41 PM   #22
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No power to detached garage


I bet the 40 amp is for your stove. Is it the only 40 amp breaker in the panel? Turn it off and try the stove.

Can you find where the conduit goes in the house?

And no a panel is not necessary, but convenient. Any plans for an electric car in the future?


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Last edited by John Snow; 04-07-2019 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
I bet the 40 amp is for your stove. Is it the only 40 amp breaker in the panel? Turn it off and try the stove.

Can you find where the conduit goes in the house?

And no a panel is not necessary, but convenient. Any plans for an electric car in
the future?



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I believe that’s the only 40amp but I’ll double check when I get home. Don’t think it powers the stove as it’s off atm and stove works. Maybe for stove in basement. Again I’ll double check later.

Ya the pic below is the conduit on the house side. It’s got 3 hot (red), 3 neutral (white) and 1 black (ground). The 3 hots are the ones that shorted out.

Possibly in future but the garage interior drywall is old and some parts exposed and will be redone in future so maybe then I’ll install a sub. For now just need to get power to garage.
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No power to detached garage-97ba7e07-cb33-4f73-8c05-8696e741f07a_1554679157966.jpg  
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:40 PM   #24
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by Spydey View Post
I'm pretty sure its only one circuit feeding the garage as I don't see any where else there's a conduit going into the garage.

Its a bit confusing because the wires coming out the 40amp breakers are thicker than 14 awg but I'm sure that breaker powers the garage and also the 2 15amp breakers labelled for the garage might be mislabelled as I shut that breaker off but I don't have any kind off power loss in the house so I'm kinda stumped as to what that breaker powers.

Gonna have to do a bit of investigating.

Hopefully between the panel and before the conduit exits the house you discover a subpanel. Because in no way is it acceptable to splice #14 gauge wires onto #8 gauge wires and feed them with a 40 amp breaker.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydey View Post
I'm pretty sure its only one circuit feeding the garage as I don't see any where else there's a conduit going into the garage.

Its a bit confusing because the wires coming out the 40amp breakers are thicker than 14 awg but I'm sure that breaker powers the garage and also the 2 15amp breakers labelled for the garage might be mislabelled as I shut that breaker off but I don't have any kind off power loss in the house so I'm kinda stumped as to what that breaker powers.

Gonna have to do a bit of investigating.

Hopefully between the panel and before the conduit exits the house you discover a subpanel. Because in no way is it acceptable to splice #14 gauge wires onto #8 gauge wires and feed them with a 40 amp breaker.
Ya I hope so too. I’m no electrician by any means but even I can see through common sense that that isn’t a correct way to do things. Thanks for the input. I’ll update when I get more info.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:11 PM   #26
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by CodeMatters View Post
Canadian code does not restrict the number of circuits feeding a garage.
For detached as well? I thought this was a detached structure.
And I do not know much Canadian code.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
I bet the 40 amp is for your stove. Is it the only 40 amp breaker in the panel? Turn it off and try the stove.

Can you find where the conduit goes in the house?

And no a panel is not necessary, but convenient. Any plans for an electric car in the future?


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I just checked and there is another 40amp breaker which powers the stove in the kitchen on main floor. The stove in the basement has no power going to it right now so the 2nd 40 amp powers it as the breaker is off. So maybe the other 2 15amp breakers that I don’t know what it powers are for the garage then. I will cap the 3 exposed shorted hots tomorrow and turn on the 2 15 amp breakers and see if there’s power on the lines. Then I’ll know. If so, then they spliced 14 awg wires onto the 2 12 or 10 awg wires. Hopefully that’s the case. Otherwise I’m gonna have to open up the wall a bit and really look at what’s goin on. Will keep you guys posted to what I find.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:30 AM   #28
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
For detached as well? I thought this was a detached structure.
And I do not know much Canadian code.

Neither attached nor detached garages/structures are limited in the number
of circuits which can be supplied under the CEC.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:59 PM   #29
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by CodeMatters View Post
Neither attached nor detached garages/structures are limited in the number
of circuits which can be supplied under the CEC.
At some point common sense is assumed to prevail?


The time/effort and material cost to do as the OP has had done...
vs pulling just one set of #6...
let alone the greater flexibility...
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:43 PM   #30
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Re: No power to detached garage


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Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
At some point common sense is assumed to prevail?


The time/effort and material cost to do as the OP has had done...
vs pulling just one set of #6...
let alone the greater flexibility...
Don't you guys have some silly rule about no more than 6 breakers
to shut everything off.
Split bus panels
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