No Ground In Garage - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 04-27-2016, 01:54 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: IL
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 20
Default

No ground in garage


In the process of restoring power to my garage dealt with in another thread, I discovered that there is no ground connection back to the house panel. The previous owner had run a two conductor UF cable without a ground wire.

Can I install a ground rod next to the garage foundation and hook to that? Or do I have to run a complete new cable from the house panel to the garage. The cable would have to go under a sidewalk, so I'd rather not go that route if there's a safe alternative.
Bythepond88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-27-2016, 02:40 PM   #2
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,957
Rewards Points: 3,872
Default

Re: No ground in garage


How much capacity do you need at the shed? Do you need any 240 volt loads? Is there any metallic path back to the house?
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-27-2016, 03:54 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: IL
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 20
Default

Re: No ground in garage


No, I do not need any 240v load. I will just be running a light over the bench, the garage door opener, and the occasional hand power tool, and maybe a planer for short periods from time to time. (Not all at once, of course.)
Bythepond88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-27-2016, 04:01 PM   #4
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 11,217
Rewards Points: 904
Default

Re: No ground in garage


There is no approved way correct this without running a new cable.

If you wish to continue using what you have, add a GFCI receptacle at the first appearance of the UF cable and feed the rest of the garage off the load terminals.
__________________
My electrical answers are based on 2017 NEC, you may have local amendments.

Location: Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 05:13 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: California
Posts: 774
Rewards Points: 516
Default


A ground rod in this scenario would be more likely to shock someone than open a circuit breaker. Electricity isn't trying to go to earth. GFCI protection is the best option besides running a new cable.
Arrow3030 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Arrow3030 For This Useful Post:
mm11 (04-28-2016)
Old 04-27-2016, 05:59 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: IL
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 20
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Can I install a GFCI without a separate ground wire?
Bythepond88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 06:16 PM   #7
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 11,217
Rewards Points: 904
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bythepond88 View Post
Can I install a GFCI without a separate ground wire?
GFCI does not require a ground to operate. It senses an unbalance between the hot and neutral.
__________________
My electrical answers are based on 2017 NEC, you may have local amendments.

Location: Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 06:37 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: IL
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 20
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Thanks for the advice. I'll go with a GFCI, then.
Bythepond88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 08:23 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 714
Rewards Points: 774
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrow3030 View Post
A ground rod in this scenario would be more likely to shock someone than open a circuit breaker. Electricity isn't trying to go to earth. GFCI protection is the best option besides running a new cable.
Actually what he has is basically a separate service much like what the utility runs to any residence except in lieu of 240/120 3 wire he has 120 2 wire. He can and most likely should install a circuit breaker panel and drive a ground rod grounding the neutral. He should still utilize the GFCI.
Know A Little is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Know A Little For This Useful Post:
ChiTownPro (04-28-2016), mpoulton (04-29-2016)
Old 04-27-2016, 08:27 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 714
Rewards Points: 774
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrow3030 View Post
A ground rod in this scenario would be more likely to shock someone than open a circuit breaker. Electricity isn't trying to go to earth. GFCI protection is the best option besides running a new cable.
DIY would not let me use the EDIT feature for some reason.

Can you explain how you think a ground rod could make this installation more of a shock hazard?
Know A Little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 08:37 PM   #11
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 11,217
Rewards Points: 904
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Know A Little View Post
Actually what he has is basically a separate service much like what the utility runs to any residence except in lieu of 240/120 3 wire he has 120 2 wire. He can and most likely should install a circuit breaker panel and drive a ground rod grounding the neutral. He should still utilize the GFCI.
Not sure what the value would be. More money with no benefit.
__________________
My electrical answers are based on 2017 NEC, you may have local amendments.

Location: Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 08:59 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: California
Posts: 774
Rewards Points: 516
Default


If it were like a service entrance and the neutral was bonded to the EGC'S and the ground rod than there's not likely a shock hazard.
It's when EGC's are not bonded to a grounded conductor and only a ground rod when things are fundamentally wrong. *Drive a ground rod, hook up 120v to it on a 20A breaker and see what happens.
*hypothetical

Last edited by Arrow3030; 04-27-2016 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Liability
Arrow3030 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 09:43 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 714
Rewards Points: 774
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
Not sure what the value would be. More money with no benefit.
No benefit in having a grounded system?
Know A Little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 09:45 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 714
Rewards Points: 774
Default

Re: No ground in garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrow3030 View Post
If it were like a service entrance and the neutral was bonded to the EGC'S and the ground rod than there's not likely a shock hazard.
It's when EGC's are not bonded to a grounded conductor and only a ground rod when things are fundamentally wrong. *Drive a ground rod, hook up 120v to it on a 20A breaker and see what happens.
*hypothetical
I said treat it like a SDS. Safer based on over a 140 years experience.
Know A Little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 11:01 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: California
Posts: 774
Rewards Points: 516
Default


I'm not sure what your point is. Maybe it would help if I was more concise. A ground rod doesn't clear a fault, that's not why it's installed. Electricity takes any path available back to its source including earth. The earth has resistance. Applying voltage to earth can be dangerous. Ground rods are used to establish a connection to earth.
Arrow3030 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
running ground for new upgraded 200 Amp service mbaldwin Electrical 11 05-26-2013 09:51 AM
50 Amps for a garage help IcyShadowz Electrical 48 05-31-2012 10:58 PM
Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right dorlow Electrical 185 01-15-2012 02:54 PM
Ground wearing out from under garage concrete pad vernonl Building & Construction 4 05-24-2011 02:53 PM
240 volt load/appliance and ground vs neutral kgize Electrical 7 04-22-2010 11:40 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts