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Bythepond88 04-27-2016 01:54 PM

No ground in garage
 
In the process of restoring power to my garage dealt with in another thread, I discovered that there is no ground connection back to the house panel. The previous owner had run a two conductor UF cable without a ground wire.

Can I install a ground rod next to the garage foundation and hook to that? Or do I have to run a complete new cable from the house panel to the garage. The cable would have to go under a sidewalk, so I'd rather not go that route if there's a safe alternative.

Jim Port 04-27-2016 02:40 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
How much capacity do you need at the shed? Do you need any 240 volt loads? Is there any metallic path back to the house?

Bythepond88 04-27-2016 03:54 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
No, I do not need any 240v load. I will just be running a light over the bench, the garage door opener, and the occasional hand power tool, and maybe a planer for short periods from time to time. (Not all at once, of course.)

rjniles 04-27-2016 04:01 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
There is no approved way correct this without running a new cable.

If you wish to continue using what you have, add a GFCI receptacle at the first appearance of the UF cable and feed the rest of the garage off the load terminals.

Arrow3030 04-27-2016 05:13 PM

9 Attachment(s)
A ground rod in this scenario would be more likely to shock someone than open a circuit breaker. Electricity isn't trying to go to earth. GFCI protection is the best option besides running a new cable.

Bythepond88 04-27-2016 05:59 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Can I install a GFCI without a separate ground wire?

rjniles 04-27-2016 06:16 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bythepond88 (Post 3242745)
Can I install a GFCI without a separate ground wire?

GFCI does not require a ground to operate. It senses an unbalance between the hot and neutral.

Bythepond88 04-27-2016 06:37 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Thanks for the advice. I'll go with a GFCI, then.

Know A Little 04-27-2016 08:23 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrow3030 (Post 3242617)
A ground rod in this scenario would be more likely to shock someone than open a circuit breaker. Electricity isn't trying to go to earth. GFCI protection is the best option besides running a new cable.

Actually what he has is basically a separate service much like what the utility runs to any residence except in lieu of 240/120 3 wire he has 120 2 wire. He can and most likely should install a circuit breaker panel and drive a ground rod grounding the neutral. He should still utilize the GFCI.

Know A Little 04-27-2016 08:27 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrow3030 (Post 3242617)
A ground rod in this scenario would be more likely to shock someone than open a circuit breaker. Electricity isn't trying to go to earth. GFCI protection is the best option besides running a new cable.

DIY would not let me use the EDIT feature for some reason.

Can you explain how you think a ground rod could make this installation more of a shock hazard?

rjniles 04-27-2016 08:37 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Know A Little (Post 3243137)
Actually what he has is basically a separate service much like what the utility runs to any residence except in lieu of 240/120 3 wire he has 120 2 wire. He can and most likely should install a circuit breaker panel and drive a ground rod grounding the neutral. He should still utilize the GFCI.

Not sure what the value would be. More money with no benefit.

Arrow3030 04-27-2016 08:59 PM

9 Attachment(s)
If it were like a service entrance and the neutral was bonded to the EGC'S and the ground rod than there's not likely a shock hazard.
It's when EGC's are not bonded to a grounded conductor and only a ground rod when things are fundamentally wrong. *Drive a ground rod, hook up 120v to it on a 20A breaker and see what happens.
*hypothetical

Know A Little 04-27-2016 09:43 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rjniles (Post 3243169)
Not sure what the value would be. More money with no benefit.

No benefit in having a grounded system?

Know A Little 04-27-2016 09:45 PM

Re: No ground in garage
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrow3030 (Post 3243209)
If it were like a service entrance and the neutral was bonded to the EGC'S and the ground rod than there's not likely a shock hazard.
It's when EGC's are not bonded to a grounded conductor and only a ground rod when things are fundamentally wrong. *Drive a ground rod, hook up 120v to it on a 20A breaker and see what happens.
*hypothetical

I said treat it like a SDS. Safer based on over a 140 years experience.

Arrow3030 04-27-2016 11:01 PM

9 Attachment(s)
I'm not sure what your point is. Maybe it would help if I was more concise. A ground rod doesn't clear a fault, that's not why it's installed. Electricity takes any path available back to its source including earth. The earth has resistance. Applying voltage to earth can be dangerous. Ground rods are used to establish a connection to earth.


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