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Old 03-29-2010, 10:00 PM   #46
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WAIT A MINUTE!!!!


depending on the distance and the local inspector, he may not be able to use SE cable. I can promise you, in my area, the inspector would not allow SE in the wall like that.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
WAIT A MINUTE!!!!


depending on the distance and the local inspector, he may not be able to use SE cable. I can promise you, in my area, the inspector would not allow SE in the wall like that.
Distance would be approx 7' run. If I used SE, it would be routed through the studs, not around them.

I'm the only inspector. I'm tough, but cautiously open to pragmatic solutions. What are the issues with using SE? Seriously, I don't want to use it if it's not compliant. Since I don't have an inspector, I'm leaning heavily on the great advise I'm getting on this site!.....
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:27 PM   #48
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code requires a disconnect (generally the main in the panel) be installed in a readily accessible location inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors

the inspector in my area has deemed that to mean you cannot run the cable parallel through a wall more than just enough to change the height difference between the entrance points or possibly a very small sideward distance.


We used to have a unwritten rule that as long as the cable was less than 11 feet, you were good.

just to give you a reason for this: that cable is fused only by what ever the power company has inline. Since 1 transformer is often used to feed multiple houses, that means that wire can actually be way overfused.

and a little story:

guy was building a house. Ran the SE from one side of the house to the other, exposed. Somebody ran a screw into the cable but not enough contact to blow the fuse so basically, it ended up being a nice resistance heater, at least until it started the wood on fire and burned the house down.


so now, you can do it however you want now that you understand why it is done a particular way.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:33 PM   #49
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didn't mean to freak you out. In many areas, using SE cable would be just fine as you are using it. I'm a commercial/industrial guy so as far as we are concerned, anybody that doesn't use conduit is a weenie. As we often say, we don't pull no rope (a slang term for NM cable)


and if you saw me installing NM, you would understand why I don't pull no rope and might not want me to pull your either. I admit, there is an art to it and I just don't do enough to become really good at it.

anyway, I always prefer pipe but that doesn't mean some other installation is not just fine. Hang on for a few of the other guys to comment on your intended use though just to get some resi guys (rope yankers) opinions before you start swapping stuff.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:32 PM   #50
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I was going thru this part and Nap did offer one option and for myself there is other option if you insted using the SE cable inside the wall if that part is unfused many inspector will get worry about it due many location they will say one word " short as possible ".

If your local stated under 5 feet then you may open up new can of worms so one soultion I done pretty often when I see more than 5 feet worth of SE or service entrance conduit going in the building then I put in main breaker or fuse box outside location and with outdoor main breaker you can basically run unlimited of SE or service entrance conduit but ya have to use 4 wire set up instead of three wire set up.

But I heard but I will not able confirm with Texas codes some stated 5 foot some say 3 foots so it kinda pretty wide open shot with distance so check with the inspector { county electrique inspector } to see what they have to say for unfused conductors in the building.

Merci,Marc
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:22 AM   #51
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That will be one long screw to reach an SE cable installed between those two stud walls. Anyway, what you are arguing would require a disconnect at the meter whether one is using SE cable or a conduit installation.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:46 PM   #52
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That will be one long screw to reach an SE cable installed between those two stud walls. Anyway, what you are arguing would require a disconnect at the meter whether one is using SE cable or a conduit installation.
just trying to give reasoning with the information.

and no, if it is in conduit, it changes everything. If in conduit, it is considered to be protected (not as in fused properly but physical protection) and as such, would be allowed to extend further. He is very concerned about unprotected (physically) SE conductors.

I have to admit, the inspector in our area is not very lenient in this and it is his interpretation. It simply isn't worth it to argue this type of point with him as the state could easily see it his way and allow his ruling to stand since there is no well defined directive in the code.

Ya gotta learn what battles are worth fighting and understand how those battles affect the overall war. Winning one battle simply for the sake of winning it is foolish if winning that battle causes you to lose the war.

Personally, I could reasonably argue that the panel is in fact the nearest point of entrance of the SE conductors as the bathroom is a no no. His argument would be to move the point where the cable enters the wall (i.e. run the cable outside the wall either in conduit or exposed, it wouldn't matter). a battle not worth fighting IMO.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:23 PM   #53
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Well, it's a moot point. Apparently no place around here carries 2/0 SE cable or can get it in small lengths. One place said they could get an order from the factory, but I would have to buy 500' minimum. Uh, ...no thank you!

My conduit source is willing to swap out my 2" EMT parts for 1.5". Not surprisingly, he wasn't able to consider taking back the 2/0 wire.

I'm not a total weenie, Nap. I'm going with conduit!

Now, regarding how to secure the conduit: It'd be very difficult to secure standard fasteners on the back side of the wall, given there's only 4" of space back there. I considered the following two options, and think I'll go with #2, using a one-hole mounting strap.....
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:58 PM   #54
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#2 looks good.

can you reach the framing for the outside wall? What about simply taking the conduit back to that framing and using a 1 hole strap on the edge of the studs facing you?

FYI: conduit must be secured within 3 feet of a box so that means you would need two attachments. One within 3 feet of each end. That's it.

have you thought about how to enter the panel. Like I said, a 90º bend isn't going to fit between the panel and the back wall.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:42 PM   #55
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Get the 15 or 22° kick or ell it will bend toward the excat location where you will land in the stud so 22° plus 90° Ell it will go nice in that spot.

Otherwise I will say some I just say some electrical shops in your area may willing to bend the conduit for you like make first 90° then 20° or 22° kick over that will fit right in the two by four cavity.

Merci,Marc
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:58 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
#2 looks good.

can you reach the framing for the outside wall? What about simply taking the conduit back to that framing and using a 1 hole strap on the edge of the studs facing you?

FYI: conduit must be secured within 3 feet of a box so that means you would need two attachments. One within 3 feet of each end. That's it.

have you thought about how to enter the panel. Like I said, a 90º bend isn't going to fit between the panel and the back wall.
The outside of the inner wall is sheathed in foam board. I took the photo below in the attic, looking between the two walls (inner wall on left, outer on right). I’ve input white lines showing the approximate path of the conduit.

A couple points:

1. Squirrels apparently got into the attic and nested there, prior to my owning the house. That’s what caused all the damage to the foam board.

2. The horizontal run of the conduit will only be about 5.5 feet. I’m assuming you need two supports, regardless of length. There's only about 1.5 feet of open space before the conduit enters the "inbetween" area, so I can't access the exterior wall for the 2nd support without going through the foam board. That's one reason I considered option #1 from my previous post, since I could cut a small hole in the board, slip the wood in and secure it, then route the conduit through the hole -- minimal tearout of the foam board. Of course, I'd have to be very precise to make the EMT end up at the right panel position!

I’m not sure how to turn the corner into the panel. I was going to ask the supply shop tomorrow about options. In PVC conduit, there’s a “LB access fitting." Is there such a fitting for EMT? That, or something similar, would allow me to enter from the back of the panel.

I could go higher with the conduit, do a downwards 90*, then a couple of 45*s to "zig-zag" over for a top entry to the panel (2nd photo). However, this would probably add a number of feet to the overall run, and I don't think I have enough wire length!

Any other suggestions? After looking at the 90 degree fitting, I’m realizing it’s going to be a problem….. (and I'm starting to feel like a weenie again)
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:01 PM   #57
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dang, whack me with a stick. I look at itdanf's drawing and all I see it the pipe coming into the back of the box.


Thanks for waking me up Marc.

come out of the top or bottom of the box, then a 90º bend and the a 20º bend with the centerline of the bend at a 90º rotation from the centerline oc the 90º bend. Geesh. Don't know what I was thinking.


itsdanf, is this conduit then going to the meter base which will be outside facing directly opposite of the inside panel? If so, getting into that presents s few problems of it's own.

You're pretty good with the drawings. Can you take the one in post #34 and add to it to show where the meter base is. If you could toss some dimension in it might help as well.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:05 PM   #58
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LB's are available for use with emt but they must remain accessible and cannot be buried in the walls.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:07 PM   #59
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Quote:
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Thanks for waking me up Marc.
Sûr n'importe quand mais obtiennent une bonne tasse de café d'abord avant que vous ne doubliez le contrôle l'écran MDR!!

Sure anytime but get a good cup of coffee first before you double check the screen LOL !!

Merci,Marc
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:08 PM   #60
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Quote:
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...come out of the top or bottom of the box, then a 90º bend and the a 20º bend with the centerline of the bend at a 90º rotation from the centerline oc the 90º bend...
Uh........

I'll work on that drawing. What I lack in good drawing software, I make up in persistence. Will take me a few minutes....
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