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Old 03-23-2010, 11:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
A #6 bare or insulated wire is the max size required when connecting to a "made" electrode, such as a ground rod(s).
Thanks for the response. If #6 is the max size, does that mean I could/should go smaller? Or do you mean max AWG (i.e., smallest), and I could/should go bigger?

Also, what's a "made" electrode (aside from a ground rod)? Never heard that phrase before...

(Sorry, I'm in confused mode tonight)
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:08 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdanf View Post
Thanks for the response. If #6 is the max size, does that mean I could/should go smaller? Or do you mean max AWG (i.e., smallest), and I could/should go bigger?

Also, what's a "made" electrode (aside from a ground rod)? Never heard that phrase before...

(Sorry, I'm in confused mode tonight)


a made electrode is an electrode that is simply an electrode. A water pipe, concrete encased electrode, and building steel are not made electrodes. They are what they are but the get used for an electrode as well,

a rod, pipe, or plate electrode is just that, an electrode made of rod, pipe, or plate and that is all it is; an electrode

the size of the conductor is based on the size of the service entrance conductors. If copper SE conductors #2 or smaller, you would need to use a #8 cu GEC to the made electrodes. SE conductor of 1 or 1/0 would need a #6 GEC. Regardless of how large the SE conductors are after that, you only need to use a #6 GEC to the made electrodes. You can always use a larger wire if you want but not smaller and it doesn't need to be larger.

If running to other electrodes, the size requirements are different.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
a made electrode is an electrode that is simply an electrode. A water pipe, concrete encased electrode, and building steel are not made electrodes. They are what they are but the get used for an electrode as well,

a rod, pipe, or plate electrode is just that, an electrode made of rod, pipe, or plate and that is all it is; an electrode

the size of the conductor is based on the size of the service entrance conductors. If copper SE conductors #2 or smaller, you would need to use a #8 cu GEC to the made electrodes. SE conductor of 1 or 1/0 would need a #6 GEC. Regardless of how large the SE conductors are after that, you only need to use a #6 GEC to the made electrodes. You can always use a larger wire if you want but not smaller and it doesn't need to be larger.

If running to other electrodes, the size requirements are different.
Thanks for the clarification, Nap! I'm back on track (for now.... ).
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:24 PM   #34
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ROUTING CONDUIT:

I've cut out the drywall for the new panel location, and am trying to determine how to route conduit. There are actually two walls: The interior wall, and the exterior wall built on top of the brick facade on the lower floor (see diagrams). There's 4" of space between the interior and exterior walls.

Question: Can I route conduit between the two stud walls for about 3 1/2 feet? I'd be using 1 1/2" EMT for 2/0 wires from meter, and 1 1/4" PVC for sub-panel (attached to the inner-wall studs).
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Last edited by Itsdanf; 03-29-2010 at 02:10 PM. Reason: Correct error: 2/0 wires, not SE wire
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdanf View Post
ROUTING CONDUIT:

I've cut out the drywall for the new panel location, and am trying to determine how to route conduit. There are actually two walls: The interior wall, and the exterior wall built on top of the brick facade on the lower floor (see diagrams). There's 4" of space between the interior and exterior walls.

Question: Can I route conduit between the two stud walls for about 3 1/2 feet? I'd be using 1 1/2" EMT for SE wire, and 1 1/4" PVC for sub-panel (attached to the inner-wall studs).
You don't need conduit for SE cable.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:06 PM   #36
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You don't need conduit for SE cable.
Sorry, my error: Not "SE cable." Will be three 2/0 wires for my service entry feed (i.e., wire from the meter socket to the main panel). I understand I need to use 1 1/2" EMT for these.

The 1 1/4" PVC conduit will carry three #1 wire and a #6 green for a sub-panel.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdanf View Post
Sorry, my error: Not "SE cable." Will be three 2/0 wires for my service entry feed (i.e., wire from the meter socket to the main panel). I understand I need to use 1 1/2" EMT for these.

The 1 1/4" PVC conduit will carry three #1 wire and a #6 green for a sub-panel.
NEC requires 2" EMT for 3 2/0 conductors.

Both sets copper I presume?
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
NEC requires 2" EMT for 3 2/0 conductors.

Both sets copper I presume?
That's what I get for listening to the guy at the electrical supply shop...

Okay, 2" EMT (thanks!). Yes, both sets will be copper.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:41 PM   #39
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So ..... back to the question from post #34: Is the use of conduit between the two walls okay?


(I'm hoping so, 'cause it will sure make the install easier!)
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Itsdanf View Post
So ..... back to the question from post #34: Is the use of conduit between the two walls okay?


(I'm hoping so, 'cause it will sure make the install easier!)
Yes, as long as it is properly secured.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:56 PM   #41
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Yes, as long as it is properly secured.
Great!

I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to secure them, since I can't access the back of the studs from the front... -- but I'll think of something!

Thanks for the great feedback.

Dan
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:58 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
NEC requires 2" EMT for 3 2/0 conductors.

Both sets copper I presume?
my 2008 NEC says 1 1/2"
specs: THWN wire, EMT

dan, post 34. You are going to have a problem running the conduit like you picture. a 90 bend is like a foot tall (don't have the exact height at hand) so unless you have that much room behind the panels, you are going to have to run the conduit into the side of the panel and use an offset to run it behind the studs.

how are you entering the meter box?

you might have to remove some more drywall like so you can get to the top and bottom plates of the wall. If it were me, I would cut out the stud shown to be on the right hand side of the panel and use a header and appropriate king and jack studs. By the time you come into the side of the panel, it will remove almost all of the stud on that side. Not a good thing to do.

Last edited by nap; 03-29-2010 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
my 2008 NEC says 1 1/2"
specs: THWN wire, EMT

dan, post 34. You are going to have a problem running the conduit like you picture. a 90 bend is like a foot tall (don't have the exact height at hand) so unless you have that much room behind the panels, you are going to have to run the conduit into the side of the panel and use an offset to run it behind the studs.

how are you entering the meter box?

you might have to remove some more drywall like so you can get to the top and bottom plates of the wall. If it were me, I would cut out the stud shown to be on the right hand side of the panel and use a header and appropriate king and jack studs. By the time you come into the side of the panel, it will remove almost all of the stud on that side. Not a good thing to do.
Sorry, Nap is correct. I looked at the wrong wire type. I don't know why you don't just use SE cable.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:16 PM   #44
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I see 1.5" also for EMT...if this chart is right ?
Seems same as Annex C

http://www.westernextralite.com/resources.asp?key=47



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Old 03-29-2010, 08:32 PM   #45
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Sorry, Nap is correct. I looked at the wrong wire type. I don't know why you don't just use SE cable.
Why not SE cable? Probably because, in my ignorance, I didn't ask the right questions ahead of time. I'm in the "knows enough to be dangerous" mode. For some stupid reason, I thought all meter-to-panel conductors were always supposed to be individual wires in conduit. If I'd only known!!!!

Unfortunately I spent $170 this afternoon buying 2/0 wire and 2" EMT conduit and couplings from the electrical supply shop. Based on my previous conversations with them (about returning unused conduit parts), I believe they'll let me exchange the 2" EMT stuff for 1 1/2"; however, I doubt they'll let me exchange it all for SE cable.

Well, guess I can talk to them and see. Now that I know about SE cable (just Googled a bit on it), I might try to return the EMT parts, eat the cost of the 2/0 wire, and buy some SE cable -- just for the easier installation.

Who knows, maybe I can sell the 2/0 wire on craigslist...
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