Mogul Socket: 600V But Can It Support 120V? (Metal Halide Ballast) - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 10-08-2009, 05:09 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Mogul socket: 600V but can it support 120V? (Metal Halide Ballast)


I recently purchased a Mogul socket which I have connected to a Metal Halide Ballast & Capacitor that receives and processes 120V. However, when flipping the power on, the firmly connected 400w 6500k MH bulb doesn't start powering up. I am wondering if this is because the Mogul socket's box describes it as 600V.

My specific question I would appreciate knowing the answer to is, is the 600V listed on the Mogul socket a maximum voltage that it can handle or the exclusive voltage that it can handle?

If it is a maximum voltage, I presume something is wrong with my setup and I will follow this post with the setup's detail.
kithless is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-08-2009, 05:20 PM   #2
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 8,197
Rewards Points: 6,034
Default


That is the max voltage rating of the socket.
__________________
Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late
The cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder
I'm an over-forty victim of fate.
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-08-2009, 05:22 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Thanks for the fast response jbfan. Unfortunately I'm not next to my setup right now otherwise I'd post the details, but I'll be back home in a few hours and will do so then.

I appreciate the information.
kithless is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-08-2009, 05:46 PM   #4
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 229
Rewards Points: 150
Default


Could you supply a picture of your installation or would that put you in a compromising situation?

lolol__pete

ps it's because us electricians barely ever use the color temperature of bulbs!
HandyPete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 05:52 PM   #5
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by HandyPete View Post
Could you supply a picture of your installation or would that put you in a compromising situation?

lolol__pete

ps it's because us electricians barely ever use the color temperature of bulbs!
Oh, no I'm not doing anything illegal. I just want the best light for vegetative growth - and that happens to be in the 6500k range.

I also believe there are other applications for this spectrum of light than just growing plants, such as for screen projectors, aquariums, and coral reef exploration.

I'll be back at home in a few hours and will be able to show you all my set up then
kithless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 10:12 PM   #6
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by kithless View Post
I recently purchased a Mogul socket which I have connected to a Metal Halide Ballast & Capacitor that receives and processes 120V. However, when flipping the power on, the firmly connected 400w 6500k MH bulb doesn't start powering up. I am wondering if this is because the Mogul socket's box describes it as 600V.

My specific question I would appreciate knowing the answer to is, is the 600V listed on the Mogul socket a maximum voltage that it can handle or the exclusive voltage that it can handle?

If it is a maximum voltage, I presume something is wrong with my setup and I will follow this post with the setup's detail.
This will be more than simple trouble shooting but let me run down real quick details

Voltage at the ballast connection are you using the correct voltage due most HID ballast are useally wired multi tap which it mean it will use one of 2 to 5 diffrent voltage like example 120V or 208V or 240V or 277V or 480V { some case 600V }

check the capaitor if the capaitor go bad { useally go open circuit mode } it will not lit up if shorted it will stay dim.

Check the wiring connections to make sure you are on correct one pretty good percentage of the luminaries and ballast will have some type of writing on them so you can follow if not run us the ballast number we will go from there.

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 02:36 AM   #7
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Picture of Metal Halide Fixture


It took me longer than expected to get back to here, so I apologize about the wait.

The following is a picture of my setup with labels. The wires are connected in the same places as the Metal Halide (replacement) Ballast instructions dictated. I bought the Ballast & Capacitor in a single set, and found both the Mogul socket and the MH Bulb elsewhere.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8669/1010090213.jpg

Is there anything I'm missing or have out of place? Any advice would be much appreciated.
kithless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 02:55 AM   #8
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


I don't know what to say after I did see the photo are you just testing only or what ??


If for tempory testing you need to get all the common tied together at the netrual side however the rest is correct but there is one major issue is that the metal halides sockets do come in two verison the open lamp verison or enclosed verison.

The typical tip to tell if you have open lamp socket or enclosed socket if open verison IIRC it will be in pink colour or marked " O " or open lamp and the enclosed verison will say " E "

now the other thing that the metal halide lamp can crank pretty good amout of heat with the test stand you have there that part it is not safe at all unless it will be in the proper luminaire unit

Also run the excat bulb model number full details if you can find the stamping on the bulb if not take the photo of the base I can or other reader in here will indentify it if that is correct one ditto with the socket as well we can able tell too.

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 03:21 AM   #9
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default


This is definitely just a test setup. I'm not planning on running anything here for longer than it takes to see the fixture spark up and begin working. Once I know that everything is working I am going to make a case out of wood with a fan blowing through it to keep everything running cool.

When you say common wires, do you mean the alternate voltage wires on the Ballast that I am not using (in this case, 480V, 277V, 240V, and 208V)? Right now I just have their ends all taped up and grouped together. Should I attach them all to the neutral wire or is this not what you mean?

The only thing that is identifiable from the box of the bulb is "Plusrite Metal Halide Lamp MH400/HOR/MOG." You can see the bulb & box here: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2600/1010090312.jpg

Here's an alternate picture of the setup, you can see the Mogul socket in this one: http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4259/1010090303.jpg

Thanks frenchelectrician!
kithless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 03:54 AM   #10
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by kithless View Post
This is definitely just a test setup. I'm not planning on running anything here for longer than it takes to see the fixture spark up and begin working. Once I know that everything is working I am going to make a case out of wood with a fan blowing through it to keep everything running cool.
Ahh ok but really my main condeserationg that the heat of the MH bulb can really crank out and the quatz arc tube do get super hot and if the bulb shatter it can throw the red hot glass to get something on fire so you may want to find some sort of temperd glass to protect it { and yeah they can throw out UV as well if outer glass is cracked or broken feel like sunburn }

Quote:
When you say common wires, do you mean the alternate voltage wires on the Ballast that I am not using (in this case, 480V, 277V, 240V, and 208V)? Right now I just have their ends all taped up and grouped together. Should I attach them all to the neutral wire or is this not what you mean?
just leave the other leads taped up and grouped and that grouped conductors do not touch it anything else now you see the common going to the lamp ? if so move that one to the other common conductor that always tie together.

Quote:
The only thing that is identifiable from the box of the bulb is "Plusrite Metal Halide Lamp MH400/HOR/MOG." You can see the bulb & box here: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2600/1010090312.jpg

Here's an alternate picture of the setup, you can see the Mogul socket in this one: http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/4259/1010090303.jpg

Thanks frenchelectrician!
Now let me break that bulb numbers to read it more clear.

MH - Metal Halide
400 - 400 watts
HOR - Horzontal postion only can not run with base up or down it must have the socket at flat plane
MOG - Mogual based bulb

Now let me add one more thing here this is a enclosed bulb verison it is not a open bulb verison


Now for that socket that is should be a enclosed bulb verison if you unscrew the bulb and see the socket if you see semi circuar porlican ring near the centre of concat that is open bulb rating socket.

hope this will answer your question

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 06:30 AM   #11
the Musigician
 
DangerMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 10,404
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by HandyPete View Post
Could you supply a picture of your installation or would that put you in a compromising situation?
He just moved his tomato plants out of the picture.... what else would you ever grow in a closet?

-=chuckle=-

DM
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click here to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!
DangerMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 08:24 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


MH ballasts are also meant to power a specific wattage bulb
IE a 175w ballast for a 175w bulb, 250w ballast for a 250w bulb, 400w ballast for a 400w bulb
Make sure the bulb & ballast are matched
Next there are HQI ballasts & Reg ballasts
Again the bulb must mtahc up to the ballast

I have a SW aquarium & use 10k bulbs 250w with an HQI ballast
I also have some 175w ballast & bulbs



Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 12:20 PM   #13
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
He just moved his tomato plants out of the picture.... what else would you ever grow in a closet?

-=chuckle=-

DM
Haha, maybe Salvia Divinorum, like me. It's legal here.

Anyway, I have some interesting developments. Turns out, everything was wired correctly. I changed the wiring to a different outlet location and the MH bulb started lighting up after flipping on the power. I then flipped the power off after a minute or two when I thought I heard something start to make something like a sizzling sound, but I assume that sound could have been normal but it was better to be safe than sorry.

The interesting thing is, the wire outlet that isn't working now WAS working before my friend set it up the first time. When initially connecting it to the outlet, my friend insisted that the hot wire was the white wire, and given that he had experience installing fans & regular light fixtures while I had none I deferred to his advice. I think that normally if he was installing fans or regular lights, mixing up the hot wire & neutral wire wouldn't matter unless you tried touching one, as all you would be doing there is completing a simple circuit, which could be why his misperception persisted. I'm wondering if mixing the hot & neutral on this ballast setup would cause some sort of circuit shorting and would be the reason I kept failing while testing that setup?

*Sigh* I was so determined not mess this up... I trust people too much sometimes. Sorry about the wild goose chase, guys. I appreciate all your help regardless. Special thanks to frenchelectrician for telling me I have to keep the bulb horizontal, too

Last edited by kithless; 10-10-2009 at 12:23 PM.
kithless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 01:19 PM   #14
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Sure I am glad to mention to you about the bulb keep in Horzontal postion.

If you really want vertical { upright } postion you must get diffrent bulb that have marked " U " or BU or BD the BU mean base up to horz or BD mean base down to Horz sometime they will add more restriction.

And the other thing.,

Let me add a stern warning here when any MH get near end of the life please replace it before it complety burn out this is true with Horz verison.

They have pretty long burning life before they go out typically 12 to 20 K hours depending on which type it is { in this case the 400 watter it will be about 16 to 20 K unless a specal useage it will be shorter life }

I know Scuba Dave mention MH luminaire for his fish tank and he can understand where I am going with this.

And yes you will hear the buzzing noise that is part of ballast perfomaic unless you got a electronic verison that will quite down a bit.

My frenid's fish tank what I did with his set up I put the MH ballast in basement and run 14-2 NM up to the luminaire socket and run like that to keep the ballast noise down a bit. { this set up have remote ballast operation and yes it is common to see much larger MH's run like that in large building }

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
6500k 400w mh bulb , metal halide ballast , mogul socket


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Strongest metal support to wood joint. Fixitgeorge Carpentry 1 05-05-2009 06:38 PM
Wire size for 300watt trans, 3 way 100ft Al the Diy guy Electrical 16 03-22-2008 09:46 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts