Mini Split Breaker Or GFCI Wire. - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By Shaneyj
  • 1 Post By Shaneyj
  • 2 Post By joed
  • 1 Post By jjrbus
  • 1 Post By 47_47
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 02-09-2018, 08:45 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lee county FL
Posts: 816
Rewards Points: 1,098
Default

Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


I have done a bit of wiring over the years, pulled a permit and replaced the panel in this house so know a little bit.

I am installing a Daikin 220V mini split AC

I find this schematic a bit confusing, do they want a breaker and a GFCI, which does not make any sense to me or are they saying breaker or GFCI or are they using the GFCI as a disconnect by the outside unit?

2nd confusion. I'm reading what I can and see different types of wires recommended, I suspect they are talking about the communication wire between inside and out side units but not being clear about it, wire came with unit so not an issue for me. It is the 220V wire to the outside unit that has me concerned. If I did not read anything I would run THHN from panel to outside unit in conduit without a second though. Is THHN in conduit correct to supply power to outside unit?

Page 10 of the manual if needed. http://www.daikinac.com/content/asse...ion-Manual.pdf

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Mini Split breaker or GFCI  wire.-aaa.png  
jjrbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-09-2018, 08:55 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 101
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrbus View Post
I have done a bit of wiring over the years, pulled a permit and replaced the panel in this house so know a little bit.

I am installing a Daikin 220V mini split AC

I find this schematic a bit confusing, do they want a breaker and a GFCI, which does not make any sense to me or are they saying breaker or GFCI or are they using the GFCI as a disconnect by the outside unit?

2nd confusion. I'm reading what I can and see different types of wires recommended, I suspect they are talking about the communication wire between inside and out side units but not being clear about it, wire came with unit so not an issue for me. It is the 220V wire to the outside unit that has me concerned. If I did not read anything I would run THHN from panel to outside unit in conduit without a second though. Is THHN in conduit correct to supply power to outside unit?

Page 10 of the manual if needed. http://www.daikinac.com/content/asse...ion-Manual.pdf

Thanks
Thhn/thwn in conduit is fine. Use appropriate gauge wire and accompanying breaker (14 gauge and 15 A breaker or 12 gauge and 20 amp breaker).
It is calling for gfi protection, so you could use a gfi breaker.


Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
jjrbus likes this.
Shaneyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-09-2018, 08:59 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 101
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaneyj View Post
Thhn/thwn in conduit is fine. Use appropriate gauge wire and accompanying breaker (14 gauge and 15 A breaker or 12 gauge and 20 amp breaker).
It is calling for gfi protection, so you could use a gfi breaker.


Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
But... Not sure how the gfi breaker will behave.
The mini split does not take a neutral conductor.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
jjrbus likes this.
Shaneyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-09-2018, 09:29 PM   #4
Super Moderator
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 19,376
Rewards Points: 30,078
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


240 GFCI does not require a neutral.

The drawing is a bit confusing. It shows the GFCI before the circuit breaker.
jjrbus and afjes2015 like this.

Last edited by joed; 02-09-2018 at 09:31 PM.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 06:29 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 530
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Agreed, the diagram is a bit confusing. What I think it is trying to say is that GFCI protection is needed and maybe they should have incorporated the GFCI "protection" within the same diagram block as the circuit breaker meaning that the breaker should be a GFCI breaker.

They also state to run #14 from the panel to the outdoor unit. But depending on the model determines the OCPD amp rating being either 15 or 20 amp. So if 20amp you would want to run #12.

I also do not see any means of a disconnect for servicing at the immediate outdoor site of where the power meets the outdoor unit. I would think you would want one and more than likely even your local code would dictate it along with the NEC.

As far as the conductor insulation rating for conduit to be used it should be rated for THWN. Don't use romex and strip the sheathing and use those conductors. They are only rated at THHN. You need to buy wire by the role which is rated THHN/THWN. All the same color wire is ok just be sure you mark your wire ends properly and don't use green wire if you do end up using all of one color.

NOTE: If you buy a role of wire the outside packaging may only state THHN but you need to look at the insulation imprint. That is the determining factor. It will normally say THHN/THWN which will indicate it can be used in conduit.

And as mentioned a 2 pole GFCI breaker does not require a neutral for it to function correctly or to pass inspection. I even had to educate an electrical inspector once on this fact.
afjes2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 07:49 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lee county FL
Posts: 816
Rewards Points: 1,098
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Thanks for the responses, greatly appreciated.

Thanks for clarifying that it is confusing, I'm 70 and thought it was getting to be time to have a garage sale and sell off my tools.

The THHN confusion was just reading too much on the net.

A GFCI and a disconnect is pretty simple, they had to put some extra effort into confusing that.

The GFCI and 220 not having a common went over my head. Not sure how it works and will take your word that it is right.

While we are on the GFCI one more question, They are doing it to me again! A GFCI that handles higher harmonics, ok web search time. I have a Square D box is this one off the shelf or do I need to order from NASA?

A web search indicates that the GFCI is not needed in the US and it is a holdover from the old days in the manual. I checked Daikin University and no mention of it. I looked at the top of the line mini's Mitsubishi and Fujitsu and no mention of a GFCI in their manuals! The net claims that a letter can be obtained from Daikin stating no GFCI is needed.

Be sure to install a ground fault circuit interrupter. (One that can handle higher harmonics.)
(This unit uses an inverter. Therefore, a ground fault circuit interrupter capable of handling higher harmonics must be used in
order to prevent the ground fault circuit interrupter malfunctioning.)
jjrbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 08:13 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 266
Rewards Points: 530
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Yes, the quick searches I just performed states no GFCI required. Would at least do a disconnect outside though (non-fused).

Also
Quote:
The GFCI and 220 not having a common went over my head.
the terminology is actually "neutral" not "common".
afjes2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to afjes2015 For This Useful Post:
jjrbus (02-10-2018)
Old 02-10-2018, 09:20 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lee county FL
Posts: 816
Rewards Points: 1,098
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Not an electrician but I am sure that the outside disconnect is required by code here in Lee County Florida.

I suspect an inside disconnect is required by the wall unit but will not put one in unless I fail inspection.

Just starting on this and finding several things in the manual that disagree with what is shown on the Daikin videos.

Last edited by jjrbus; 02-10-2018 at 09:23 AM.
jjrbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 12:53 PM   #9
Member
 
47_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Springville, NY
Posts: 2,585
Rewards Points: 320
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Many outside units need a gfci outlet for a service tech to work on the unit.
47_47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 01:27 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lee county FL
Posts: 816
Rewards Points: 1,098
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 47_47 View Post
Many outside units need a gfci outlet for a service tech to work on the unit.

Springville! I am a former W Seneca type of guy!
47_47 likes this.
jjrbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 01:41 PM   #11
Member
 
47_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Springville, NY
Posts: 2,585
Rewards Points: 320
Default

Re: Mini Split breaker or GFCI wire.


I went to WSW. My mom just sold the homestead after 50 years, last fall, near Southgate.
jjrbus likes this.
47_47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pigtail in breaker box question (12ga to 14 ga wire on 15 amp breaker) Paul.Timberman Electrical 1 08-07-2017 07:23 PM
GFCI 20AMP D-Pole Breaker Tripping again tstex Electrical 6 07-11-2017 04:05 PM
Touching ground wire to metal box trips breaker lmm Electrical 30 07-23-2014 01:36 PM
Landscape wiring question: GFCI and Breaker Amp MikeInDetroit Electrical 0 11-02-2011 10:43 AM
20 amp GFCI breaker pops when pool pump is turned on. jagrunner Electrical 11 03-19-2010 05:31 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts