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Old 07-20-2018, 06:25 PM   #1
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Lighting / Elecetrical


Hello again. I decided to start a new threat because the question here relates to wiring.

Im changing a light fixture that i have. Because the idea of being electrocuted does not particularly appeal to me I have switched off th breaker associated with the light switches.

This is a very old house, by Kuwaiti standards atleast. I have removed the old fixture and found a cluster of wires. way more than is needed for one light - one way switch.

i know by standard that the green/yellow wire is Ground. and Black is Hot.

Atleast thats what i thought until i turned to google and opened up the fixture im about to fix to the ceiling.

it has no ground wire. It has only 2 wires: Brown and Blue.

Photos to follow.... Anyone with the knowhow please let me know what to attach to what and what i can cap off in the simplest way possible. Thanks!!

Main issues shown in photos: Medusa's Head of wires. There are two loose green ones and one yellow one and a black one (the live one i presume has that whole plastic connector bit.

Then theres the pic of the old fixture i removed which had 4 halogen bulbs and i can see the brown and blue going into L and N respectively with Black coming out of L - this was connected to the Black in the previous pic. and the yellow/green was screwed onto the metal bit in the ceiling.

last pic is the light fixture I want to attach now.... logically....brown would be live and blue would be neutral. Is there an issue with there not being a grounding wire? and did the other fixture necessitate a more complex connection because of the transformer + multiple lights??

Thanks
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Lighting / Elecetrical-img_0320.jpg   Lighting / Elecetrical-img_0322.jpg   Lighting / Elecetrical-img_0321.jpg  
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:43 PM   #2
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


Quote:
it has no ground wire. It has only 2 wires: Brown and Blue.
European colour codes. Blue is neutral.
Is the fixture even certified for use here.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:52 PM   #3
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


Thank you for your swift response. Im guessing by 'here" you mean Canada? Im not in Canada. Im in Kuwait. im one of very few people interested in DIY around these parts as cheap expat labor is usually favored. I personally like to get my hands dirty and i enjoy knowing how stuff works.

Also, Given that im in the middle east, we get both North America and Euro "stuff" Depending on the shop.

99% of the time the voltage is changed from NA 110-120 to Kuwait's 220-240. Some items you just have to get a volt converter. its messy.

All that aside..this is the situation: I have 2 wires; brown (live) which i can connect to the black (live) leading back to the switch and then I have the blue (Neutral) which i have no idea what to connect to because i am left with Three wires to choose from: 2 greens and a yellow
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:58 PM   #4
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


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Originally Posted by joed View Post
European colour codes. Blue is neutral.
Is the fixture even certified for use here.

By the OP's profile "here" is Kuwait. I notice the fixture has the EU certification mark - don't know if that is acceptable there.


OP - I notice the fixture cable has no ground lead. I would tie the ground to the fixture mounting bracket.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:03 PM   #5
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


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Originally Posted by lenaitch View Post
By the OP's profile "here" is Kuwait. I notice the fixture has the EU certification mark - don't know if that is acceptable there.


OP - I notice the fixture cable has no ground lead. I would tie the ground to the fixture mounting bracket.
Thank you! ok we're getting warmer here. ill tie the ground (from the ceiling) to the mounting bracket , brown to black , blue to...???

I have three unknowns now in terms of wires - 2 green ones and 1 yellow coming out of the ceiling. which of these would be neutral, which is ground and any idea why theres 2 of the same color? do i just cap it off? Thank YOU!
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:36 PM   #6
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


It is possible that there are at least two cables coming into the box - I see either two or three blacks. If so, that would explain why there are multiple greens. If you are certain they are ground then yes, tie them together under a wirenut/connector and run a short pigtail to the fixture mount.


I also see a blue conductor buried in the box. I really can't help further since I don't know what the wiring standards are there. If you know what wires the previous fixture was connected , connect the new one to those and see what happens.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:43 PM   #7
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


Hey @lenaitch , I believe we got this.. i did some research and exploration. apparently certain codes for low voltage and fixed wiring in buildings in the years 1969, 1976, 1998 , and 2004. The consensus now is BLUE - NEUTRAL, BROWN - HOT

and green and yellow are ground.

i am still confused as to which of the green and yellow is ground and which is neutral they seem to be coming from all directions.

I've attached a clearer photo maybe itl help?? Thanks again ill try to investigate further
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:49 PM   #8
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


i believe the yellow may be the neutral guy in this party while green is ground; since there are 2 greens i presume they can be latched on to mounting bracket with the other 2 guys connecting to their respective parts: black - brown / blue - yellow
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:21 PM   #9
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


In the picture, the wire that looks yellow ?
Is it perchance green on the other side ?
Cause ground wires can be a mixture of yellow and green also !
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:28 PM   #10
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


Nope its yellow all around @dmxtothemax But i think im good!! We have light!

Green it seems was neutral so i bunched both greens with a green and yellow, put the black lead in with the brown, and the blue with the yellow and it worked!

see pictures:

the greens.... i dunno ..still iffy about them...they don't seem solid to me...should i strengthen their tie?
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:42 PM   #11
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


Quote:
Originally Posted by lenaitch View Post
OP - I notice the fixture cable has no ground lead. I would tie the ground to the fixture mounting bracket.
The centre connection of the terminal block in the fitting is connected to the "frame" and is to be Earthed/Grounded.

I would doubt that the Greens would be Neutral if the Yellow is determined to be Neutral. More likely that they ar Earths/Grounds - at the same potential as the Neutral.
See if you can detect any SMALL potential difference between the Yellow and Greens WHEN OTHER LIGHTS ON THAT CIRCUIT ARE ON.

(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring for wiring colour codes in various countries - although Kuwait is not mentioned there.)

Last edited by FrodoOne; 07-20-2018 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:47 PM   #12
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


@FrodoOne its a bit messy right now but here's a close up of what i did... the 2 grounds i linked to a ground coming off of the block connector (i salvaged this connecter from my old fixture) am i better of soldering or screwing the three to the bracket?
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:48 PM   #13
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


ps this is in no way the finished product i just wanted to test if the light would work
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:07 PM   #14
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


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am i better of soldering or screwing the three to the bracket?
Always use a clamping method, (Soldering at a height is NOT recommended.)

Clamp the wires to the body of the bracket, using at least one washer clamped by a Screw and Nut.

Better still, terminate each wire with an appropriately sized Crimp Ring Terminal and clamp these between a nut and washer to the bracket.
(See https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUALITY-Crimp-Terminals-Yellow-Blue-Red-Eyelet-Stud-Size-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-M12/183045041339?hash=item2a9e55acbb%3Am%3AmX9yjKRa1n6 haRRQfGZsJgg&var=690343479333&_sacat=0&_nkw=690343 479333&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313)
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:18 PM   #15
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Re: Lighting / Elecetrical


@FrodoOne I wasn't sure what those things are until now! One of the grounds - the one coming from the white block - has that at the end.

The bracket has several holes in it - I think it would be safe enough to strip say an 1/8 in off of each green coming from the ceiling, loop the copper around the crimp guy and clamp it all to the bracket with the screw/washer/nut
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