J-B Weld To Mount Metal Box - Electrical - Page 5 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 01-27-2010, 08:14 PM   #61
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Those pesky wabbit ears
We may have to limit Hookoo to one thread a week





Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-27-2010, 08:21 PM   #62
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Rewards Points: 2,000
Blog Entries: 7
Default


This coming from a man who has 7500 posts in 1 year..... Hey Kettle! Pot just called you black.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-27-2010, 08:28 PM   #63
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Hey, I said threads....not posts
I haven't started a thread in 5 days
And on the SW reef forum I had 10k posts in about a year

And why did I always pronounce this "orly" instead of oh really ?





Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-27-2010, 09:09 PM   #64
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 7,551
Rewards Points: 6,290
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post

That's my story and I'm stickin to it.....
.
like I said, no problems as long as he can comply with 334.30
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 10:09 PM   #65
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Those pesky wabbit ears
We may have to limit Hookoo to one thread a week

I already told ya'll in another thread that your rapid response to questions in this forum was only encouraging me to ask more.
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 10:27 PM   #66
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default

J-B Weld Results


Well, I decided to give the J-B Weld a try... after all, like I said, I can always go back and add screws... and the epoxy will help hold things in place while I add them.

So for those that care, here's the results (so far)...

The J-B Weld is batting 0.667.

Pretty much using only my bare hands, I was able to pull down the 4x4 boxes at the top of the pole.

Trying to pull on the strap installed mid-way down the conduit, I couldn't make it move (but then there wasn't much space to put some really strong force on it).

But the "handy boxes" are ROCK SOLID. They didn't budge when I did what I could to put all my weight on them. I wrapped my hand around the box and leaned side ways til I was at a 45 degree angle (which ment about half my body weight was pulling on the box side ways) and again didn't budge.

I can't explain WHY both 4x4 boxes failed while both handy boxes held firm (especially when you consider the handy box has less surface area so pressures where higher). 4x4s were given 48 hours before testing, where as the handy boxes had a little bit more time.
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 11:20 PM   #67
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,341
Rewards Points: 2,652
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
Well, I decided to give the J-B Weld a try... after all, like I said, I can always go back and add screws... and the epoxy will help hold things in place while I add them.

So for those that care, here's the results (so far)...

The J-B Weld is batting 0.667.

Pretty much using only my bare hands, I was able to pull down the 4x4 boxes at the top of the pole.

Trying to pull on the strap installed mid-way down the conduit, I couldn't make it move (but then there wasn't much space to put some really strong force on it).

But the "handy boxes" are ROCK SOLID. They didn't budge when I did what I could to put all my weight on them. I wrapped my hand around the box and leaned side ways til I was at a 45 degree angle (which ment about half my body weight was pulling on the box side ways) and again didn't budge.

I can't explain WHY both 4x4 boxes failed while both handy boxes held firm (especially when you consider the handy box has less surface area so pressures where higher). 4x4s were given 48 hours before testing, where as the handy boxes had a little bit more time.
I think you should show that test to the inspector be sure to have your video rolling .... ... Just having fun.

ROCK SOLID .. that was Murrays trade name for their Loadcenters notice I underlined " was " ...
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 11:25 PM   #68
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,341
Rewards Points: 2,652
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
like I said, no problems as long as he can comply with 334.30
I agree nap I'm just trying to get my story heard to .. as I have enjoyed this thread more than most ..LMAO for a change. I wonder if the inspector could just red tag for using a non listed adhesive product for fastening electrical boxes ...
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 11:54 PM   #69
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Rewards Points: 2,000
Blog Entries: 7
Default


I'm with Stubbie, this has been an entertaining thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
I already told ya'll in another thread that your rapid response to questions in this forum was only encouraging me to ask more.
Why are you asking questions if you are just going to do whatever you planned in the first place? I am not trying to bait you, I really want to know.

I just don't get it, why bother to seek out the correct advice if you're just going to whatever floats your boat? It seems sort of malicious and negligent that you took the time to learn what the legal and best practice was and you still elected to ignore it in favor of your own plan.

I have spent 100s of hours in the last two years educating myself about homeowner electrical installation. I would NEVER try to pass myself off as a pro, but I would also NEVER be ashamed to have a pro come and look at my work.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 01:10 AM   #70
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah Frances View Post
...Why are you asking questions if you are just going to do whatever you planned in the first place? ...
My question was "Is there anything in electrical code that would say this (using J-B Weld) isn't a suitable way to mount the box?"

The only code sighting I got was "SECURELY FASTEN OUTLET BOX IN POSITION & SUPPORT INDEPENDENT OF CONDUIT SYSTEM".

Beyond that, I only got "opinions" on inspectors interpretations on "workmanship".

Granded, the majority of "opinons" were against using J-B Weld. But if I can get J-B Weld to hold "to my satisfaction", then in MY OPINION, I will be able to convince an inspector on-site that my "workmanship" mets the code definision of "securely fasten".

In the end, the only opinion that matters is the opinion of MY inspector. Otherwise, to call the "advice" given here as "correct" is being presumptous on what MY inspector's opinion is going to be in interpreting code.

Please don't think I'm ignoring what people are saying in this forum and just doing my own thing. I'm a very logical thinker, and reading these replys in a LOGICAL manner, no body said that I COULD NOT do what I want to, but in their opinion I SHOULD NOT do what I want to do. So, in THIS case, I have decided use my opinion over the opinion of others (it wouldn't be the first time I've had an opinion that was contrary to the majority, and my opinion was the better opinion).

By contrast, I asked about running a 4-way light switch with only 14-2. I proposed a solution on how to do this, and how to do it safely. But when someone provided the code that disallowed my solution (as opposed to their opinion on code), the discussion was over. What I wanted to do wasn't allow by code.

So please don't hang me out to dry just because my OPINION disagreed with the majority OPINION, and I decided to go with my own opinion.


And BTW, once I am finished with the electrical work I have to do, I too will not be ASHAMED to have a pro, or more importantly, the inspector, come and look at my work either.

Now that doesn't mean I know that everything I do will "meet code". I haven't spent years studying code. I have spent years doing several minor wiring changes in my home and learning more about code as I go. I'll admit that sometimes I have learned that something I did was against code. There have been several things I have gone back and "fixed', even though I was convinced it was safe. I do want the wiring in my house to meet code. But as evideneced by the various discussions, much of code is open to interpretation.

Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 01-28-2010 at 01:25 AM.
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 01:26 AM   #71
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


After I was reading the whole thing here and there is no way I will mess with JB weld one of the guys in France try that simuair product as you have it actally not pass our French inspectors as well.

I have no issue running the tek screws in steel post even ramset it { powder actaved nail driver } to steel post.

The issue with 4X4 junction box what you have is slight oily film from factory and that prevent from JB weld doing what it supposed to do that.

There are few cases I did see someone actally weld the junction box to steel post { this part I am NOT crazy to do that for good reason }

Now speaking of NM in the conduit as other did expain very clear they will get filled up fast due the shape of NM most of them useally are oval shape and I go by the widest part that how I count them. Oh yeah.,, don't thank about strip the sheating off and slip thru the conduit that is not allowed in the code.

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 01:46 AM   #72
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 7,551
Rewards Points: 6,290
Default


Quote:
HooKooDooKu;390399]My question was "Is there anything in electrical code that would say this (using J-B Weld) isn't a suitable way to mount the box?"
that is not a black or white question. The answer is:

yes, if the AHJ feels the glue is not an adequate means of attachment.

I will tell you that I do not believe it is an adequate means of attachment and I doubt any inspector I have worked with would see it as an adequate means of attachment.



Quote:
Beyond that, I only got "opinions" on inspectors interpretations on "workmanship".
that is because the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction aka inspector usually) has the ability to use his judgement if something is not clearly defined in the code. You have been told by a couple pro electricians and some very informed lay electricians and I believe every one of them has said it is not acceptable in their eyes.

the only guy you really have to please is the inspector so glue it and see, or not. There simply is no definite answer on this question.

Quote:
Granded, the majority of "opinons" were against using J-B Weld. But if I can get J-B Weld to hold "to my satisfaction", then in MY OPINION, I will be able to convince an inspector on-site that my "workmanship" mets the code definision of "securely fasten".
No because your opinion or my opinion means squat. It is the inspectors opinion that matters. It is not a matter of convincing the inspector, it is a matter, simply, of how he feels about it. It really is that simple without a specific support for the means in the code.

Quote:
In the end, the only opinion that matters is the opinion of MY inspector.
Now your getting it.


Quote:
Otherwise, to call the "advice" given here as "correct" is being presumptous on what MY inspector's opinion is going to be in interpreting code.
like I said, myself being a pro and whomever else does this for a living plus the folks that have dealt with insepectors on their own projects, most all seem to believe it will not fly. Now, if that definitive? Absolutely not. The only definitive word comes from the inspector. I just have been doing this long enough to know what most inspectors will and won't accept in a given situation, at least the 10 I have in my area.

Quote:
Please don't think I'm ignoring what people are saying in this forum and just doing my own thing. I'm a very logical thinker, and reading these replys in a LOGICAL manner, no body said that I COULD NOT do what I want to, but in their opinion I SHOULD NOT do what I want to do. So, in THIS case, I have decided use my opinion over the opinion of others (it wouldn't be the first time I've had an opinion that was contrary to the majority, and my opinion was the better opinion)
.It's your installation. You are the one that will deal with your inspector and if he red tags it, you are the one that will fix it. We are simply trying to save you from what we believe is some work AND if you remember way back in my earliest posts, sometimes if the inspector sees something that is really whack, he starts to look at everything with an eye out for other problems. That is why I do everything the absolute best I can. If he sees fantastic work in every spot he looks, he will feel much more comfortable not looking at that much more. As I said, I have had inspectors actually not even look at my work because they have looked at enough of it to know it will be right.

as a matter of fact, I had a green tag on a commercial service I was doing before I even put the wires in the thing. Nothing was hooked up but due to scheduling conflicts, he green tagged me so it would not screw up the power company hotting me up. It was a big rush rush thing but he knew it would be correct, and he was right.

Quote:
By contrast, I asked about running a 4-way light switch with only 14-2. I proposed a solution on how to do this, and how to do it safely. But when someone provided the code that disallowed my solution (as opposed to their opinion on code), the discussion was over. What I wanted to do wasn't allow by code.
I'm sorrry. I missed what you were asking. since this thread is so long, rather than hunting it up again, if you would ask again, I will provide some sort of answer.

Quote:
So please don't hang me out to dry just because my OPINION disagreed with the majority OPINION, and I decided to go with my own opinion.
we're not guy. Like I said, you are the only one that will talk to your inspector. We are seriously just trying to help. We don't get paid for this and there is no brownie points. We do this because we want to, nothing else.


Quote:
And BTW, once I am finished with the electrical work I have to do, I too will not be ASHAMED to have a pro, or more importantly, the inspector, come and look at my work either.
that's good because unless I misunderstood, the inspector has to come look at it.

never put in something you are ashamed of. Believe it or not, workmanship is legislated within the code. If you have some craptastic work, the inspector can tag it just because it looks craptastic.

to the last paragraph. I think everybody has had something tagged by an inspector one time or another.

realize this is your house. do work you will be proud to show your buddies (or they will razz the hell out of you) but above all, do work that is safe.

If the box gets knocked of easily, it will pull on the wires attached to it which could stretch them or cause them to chafe and rub the insulation off. Then you have an unsafe situation simply because you did not want to go to the effort to do it really proper the first time.

It is impossible to think of all the things that might go wrong due to shoddy work so you just do it right when you do it and hopefully you will never learn all the things that can go wrong.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 02:04 AM   #73
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
...
The issue with 4X4 junction box what you have is slight oily film from factory and that prevent from JB weld doing what it supposed to do that...
Actually, the J-B Weld held firm to the box. It seperate from the post, ripping a layer of red (rust? paint?) off with it.
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 02:10 AM   #74
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


Actally if I recall it right some of the steel post are powercoated and yeah they can get ripped off.

If you are serious about the JB weld then take the paint off with grinder or paint stripper so that way the JB weld will stick on however if it was for my way I will never do that due it take extra time to do that.

There are better way to get it done much quicker and don't have to wait for JB weld to complety cure up.

As I mention above I am in France now and our French inspector will not pass this set up I have see it before.

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 02:11 AM   #75
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
I'm sorrry. I missed what you were asking. since this thread is so long, rather than hunting it up again, if you would ask again, I will provide some sort of answer.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/wire-...-14-2-a-62784/

In this case, the plan was shot down with the claim that NEC doesn't allow you to seperate the hot and neutral (excluding switch loops).

While the hot and neutral are in the same sheath powering the lights, the hot comes form one end and the neutral from the other.
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to mount outside light on metal garage stryped Electrical 12 09-29-2009 02:43 PM
Plasma Mount into Metal Studs davewolfs Home Theater 24 05-21-2009 08:23 AM
Wire size for 300watt trans, 3 way 100ft Al the Diy guy Electrical 16 03-22-2008 08:46 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts