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Old 06-06-2019, 06:08 PM   #16
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But there'a no significant current there because of the high earth resistance? If there's a short between the neutral and ground in the receptacle, the current will flow to the neutral AND ground wires coming back to the main panel which is why I thought of measuring the current in the ground wire between the main and sub panel. When both of those currents make it back to the main panel, they effectively merge back in the neutral path (again because of high resistance in the wire going to the ground rod) to the transformer. Not sure if I'm missing something with your point?
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:17 PM   #17
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Re: Installing ground in home


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But there'a no significant current there because of the high earth resistance? If there's a short between the neutral and ground in the receptacle, the current will flow to the neutral AND ground wires coming back to the main panel which is why I thought of measuring the current in the ground wire between the main and sub panel. When both of those currents make it back to the main panel, they effectively merge back in the neutral path (again because of high resistance in the wire going to the ground rod) to the transformer. Not sure if I'm missing something with your point?
You want to find out if there is a neutral problem with the wire coming from the power company transformer. If there is no neutral the current will attempt to flow through earth. Measure at the ground rod.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:26 PM   #18
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Well, that's one thing but if you check my other questions above I'm also interested in checking if there's a neutral-ground short in any of the receptacles.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:31 PM   #19
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Re: Installing ground in home


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Well, that's one thing but if you check my other questions above I'm also interested in checking if there's a neutral-ground short in any of the receptacles.
Open up each receptacle. A tester will give false readings.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:20 PM   #20
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Re: Installing ground in home


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Well, that's one thing but if you check my other questions above I'm also interested in checking if there's a neutral-ground short in any of the receptacles.

The way to test for a N-G short is the turn the circuit off, remove the circuit's neutral and ground wires, and test for continuity and resistance.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:43 PM   #21
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False readings, how? Do you have any specifics?

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Quote:
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Well, that's one thing but if you check my other questions above I'm also interested in checking if there's a neutral-ground short in any of the receptacles.

The way to test for a N-G short is the turn the circuit off, remove the circuit's neutral and ground wires, and test for continuity and resistance.
Circuit as in the sub panel/main panel circuit? Why do you need to remove the ground and neutral wires to test?
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:26 PM   #22
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Re: Installing ground in home


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Old 06-08-2019, 12:53 PM   #23
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Re: Installing ground in home


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False readings, how? Do you have any specifics?



Circuit as in the sub panel/main panel circuit? Why do you need to remove the ground and neutral wires to test?
Because they are bonded together at the first disconnect.

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Old 06-08-2019, 09:17 PM   #24
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Re: Installing ground in home


Right. But we're exactly do I renove the neutral and ground wires? And which circuit do I need to turn off?

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Old 06-09-2019, 01:07 AM   #25
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Re: Installing ground in home


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Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
Well, that's one thing but if you check my other questions above I'm also interested in checking if there's a neutral-ground short in any of the receptacles.


The way to test for a N-G short is the turn the circuit off, remove the circuit's neutral and ground wires, and test for continuity and resistance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Circuit as in the sub panel/main panel circuit? Why do you need to remove the ground and neutral wires to test?

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Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
Because they are bonded together at the first disconnect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
Right. But we're exactly do I renove the neutral and ground wires? And which circuit do I need to turn off?

I don't know if you're playing dumb and just trolling, or there's some kind of language barrier, or maybe you have no idea what a particular test does or what it's for.


If you want to test for a neutral to ground fault on a receptacle circuit, you have to remove those 2 wires for the circuit you want to test from the panel where they're connected - whether that's a main panel or a sub-panel. Otherwise they'll always read continuity.



With the circuit breaker off, and the ground and neutral connections removed from the neutral/ground bar - check for continuity between them. If none than your neutral and ground are not shorted. That tests the entire circuit.



If you do read continuity then they're shorted - either within some device or a faulty appliance plugged in. Disconnect anything that is plugged in to eliminate the possibility it's a defective appliance.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
Well, that's one thing but if you check my other questions above I'm also interested in checking if there's a neutral-ground short in any of the receptacles.


The way to test for a N-G short is the turn the circuit off, remove the circuit's neutral and ground wires, and test for continuity and resistance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Circuit as in the sub panel/main panel circuit? Why do you need to remove the ground and neutral wires to test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
Because they are bonded together at the first disconnect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
Right. But we're exactly do I renove the neutral and ground wires? And which circuit do I need to turn off?

I don't know if you're playing dumb and just trolling, or there's some kind of language barrier, or maybe you have no idea what a particular test does or what it's for.


If you want to test for a neutral to ground fault on a receptacle circuit, you have to remove those 2 wires for the circuit you want to test from the panel where they're connected - whether that's a main panel or a sub-panel. Otherwise they'll always read continuity.



With the circuit breaker off, and the ground and neutral connections removed from the neutral/ground bar - check for continuity between them. If none than your neutral and ground are not shorted. That tests the entire circuit.



If you do read continuity then they're shorted - either within some device or a faulty appliance plugged in. Disconnect anything that is plugged in to eliminate the possibility it's a defective appliance.
I'm not dumb, not trolling in any way, and there's definitely no language barrier. English is our secondary, if not primary sometimes, language in our country. I was simply confused and couldn't wrap my head around what you mentioned. Sorry if I came out that way.

But now that you gave specifics then it completely make sense to me. To recap though:

1. Disconnect the neutral/ground wires that connects the neutral/ground bus bars of my sub panel to the main panel. My receptacles are connected to the sub panel, of course. This removes continuity caused by the the neutral/ground bonding in the main panel.

2. Test continuity between the neutral and ground bus bars in the sub panel. There shouldn't be any if everything is wired up correctly.

3. If there's a short, then it's probably caused by a stripped neutral and/or ground receptacle wire or a faulty appliance that's causing the short internally.

Technically, I can just remove one of the wires in step 1 to achieve the same result but I'm still going to disconnect both.
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:49 AM   #27
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Re: Installing ground in home


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Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
I'm not dumb, not trolling in any way, and there's definitely no language barrier. English is our secondary, if not primary sometimes, language in our country. I was simply confused and couldn't wrap my head around what you mentioned. Sorry if I came out that way.

But now that you gave specifics then it completely make sense to me. To recap though:

1. Disconnect the neutral/ground wires that connects the neutral/ground bus bars of my sub panel to the main panel. My receptacles are connected to the sub panel, of course. This removes continuity caused by the the neutral/ground bonding in the main panel.

WRONG! LawnGuy is trying to tell you to disconnect the ground and neutral wires for each individual branch circuit, NOT for the sub-panel. Each individual circuit has a neutral and a ground wire. Disconnect them one circuit at a time and check for continuity between them. Leave the neutral and ground wires for the sub-panel feed as is. No need to disconnect them for this test. I repeat, for EACH individual branch circuit that feeds receptacles or lights or an appliance, disconnect the ground and neutral for each circuit and check for continuity between each ground and neutral one circuit at a time. Make sure nothing is plugged into the outlets at the time of the test. Circuit breaker is off for each individual circuit being tested.

2. Test continuity between the neutral and ground bus bars in the sub panel. There shouldn't be any if everything is wired up correctly.

3. If there's a short, then it's probably caused by a stripped neutral and/or ground receptacle wire or a faulty appliance that's causing the short internally. Maybe. You could have bootleg grounds where the neutral is also being used as the ground which is why I suggested opening up each outlet.

Technically, I can just remove one of the wires in step 1 to achieve the same result but I'm still going to disconnect both. Remove both ground and neutral for each branch circuit one circuit at a time and test them for continuity.
I hope that this clears it up. Too many posts. I question your mechanical aptitude.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:44 AM   #28
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Re: Installing ground in home


I kinda have my doubt that that's what he meant but I don't understand why my test won't work? All branch circuits feed off of the same sub panel so any circuit that has its neutral and ground wires shorted would make the sub panel neutral and ground shorted too (assuming you disconnect the sun panel neutral and ground wire feed fromcthe main panel), won't it? I'm just trying to make the whole test faster and easier.

Again, sorry if you feel that my mechanical aptitude is low. I'm really trying here, you know.

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Old 06-09-2019, 10:16 AM   #29
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Re: Installing ground in home


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Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
I kinda have my doubt that that's what he meant but I don't understand why my test won't work? All branch circuits feed off of the same sub panel so any circuit that has its neutral and ground wires shorted would make the sub panel neutral and ground shorted too (assuming you disconnect the sun panel neutral and ground wire feed fromcthe main panel), won't it? I'm just trying to make the whole test faster and easier.

Again, sorry if you feel that my mechanical aptitude is low. I'm really trying here, you know.

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Old 06-09-2019, 10:24 AM   #30
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Re: Installing ground in home


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I'm not dumb, not trolling in any way, and there's definitely no language barrier. English is our secondary, if not primary sometimes, language in our country. I was simply confused and couldn't wrap my head around what you mentioned. Sorry if I came out that way.

But now that you gave specifics then it completely make sense to me. To recap though:

1. Disconnect the neutral/ground wires that connects the neutral/ground bus bars of my sub panel to the main panel. My receptacles are connected to the sub panel, of course. This removes continuity caused by the the neutral/ground bonding in the main panel.

2. Test continuity between the neutral and ground bus bars in the sub panel. There shouldn't be any if everything is wired up correctly.

3. If there's a short, then it's probably caused by a stripped neutral and/or ground receptacle wire or a faulty appliance that's causing the short internally.

Technically, I can just remove one of the wires in step 1 to achieve the same result but I'm still going to disconnect both.

If you do it this way you're checking for a N-G fault for every circuit in the panel. Make sure this panel is turned off before performing this test.
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