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Old 11-29-2019, 01:30 PM   #1
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How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


Hey all. I am wiring a master bedroom addition and bought a bunch of these Halo LED lights that come with their own j-box, so they don't need a separate ceiling box.

In the installation videos for similar products - most of which show remodel work - the j box is just stuck up through the ceiling hole and set on the drywall, not attached to anything. I'm not sure what inspectors will expect for these in terms of rough in. (I'd ask him, but it's a holiday and I'd like to keep going on the wiring).

I could wire the included j-boxes, nail the boxes to the rafter and then cut holes and install the lights once the drywall is up. The drawback is that if I don't like them or want to change lights down the road, getting those j-boxes out would be a nightmare and likely involve cutting into my drywall.

Another option would be to just coil the romex up for now, drywall over it and then cut holes and wire for final inspection. But inspectors want to see wires in boxes, so I doubt this would be kosher.

Option 3 would be to wire the j-boxes and screw them to the rafters for inspection, then unscrew them afterward and just have them unattached and sitting on the drywall like apparently is done for remodel work with this type of light.

Has anyone installed these type of lights before in new construction? What is the typical procedure? Thanks.
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Old 11-29-2019, 02:01 PM   #2
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Option 3 sounds best. Best not tell the inspector what fixture you will be using.
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Old 11-29-2019, 02:34 PM   #3
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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Originally Posted by Wiredindallas View Post
Option 3 sounds best. Best not tell the inspector what fixture you will be using.
You're not supposed to have unaccessible j-boxes, which these would basically be if I screw them to the rafters, but I think you're also not supposed to have j-boxes not attached to anything. These type light fixtures are all over the place, but I think building codes haven't caught up yet.
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Old 11-29-2019, 03:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiredindallas View Post
Option 3 sounds best. Best not tell the inspector what fixture you will be using.
You're not supposed to have unaccessible j-boxes, which these would basically be if I screw them to the rafters, but I think you're also not supposed to have j-boxes not attached to anything. These type light fixtures are all over the place, but I think building codes haven't caught up yet.
Yes, those lights are intended to be old work (remodel) applications. The code for existing construction allows unattached wiring/boxes where new construction does not. Once I used sheetrock clamps on a box in sheetrock that was already up on a new construction job. He said that you cannot throw up a piece of sheetrock and call it existing.
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Old 11-29-2019, 03:23 PM   #5
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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Yes, those lights are intended to be old work (remodel) applications. The code for existing construction allows unattached wiring/boxes where new construction does not. Once I used sheetrock clamps on a box in sheetrock that was already up on a new construction job. He said that you cannot throw up a piece of sheetrock and call it existing.


They’re marketed as new or old work. Not that that means anything. My inspector is pretty relaxed so I’m sure he’ll tell me what he wants me to do.


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Old 11-29-2019, 10:27 PM   #6
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


Some of those lights do come with a rough in plate for situations like yours.

I have(at my house and on job sites) ran the wire and coiled it above the ceiling. After drywall is installed(ideally before they mud) you go around and cut all your holes and get your wire out of the hole.

I say do it before mud is done in the rare case you can't find your wire and have to remove the drywall. Also if you mess up your holes the taper will be able to fix.
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Old 11-29-2019, 10:30 PM   #7
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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Some of those lights do come with a rough in plate for situations like yours.

I have(at my house and on job sites) ran the wire and coiled it above the ceiling. After drywall is installed(ideally before they mud) you go around and cut all your holes and get your wire out of the hole.

I say do it before mud is done in the rare case you can't find your wire and have to remove the drywall. Also if you mess up your holes the taper will be able to fix.


Now that you mention it, there is a little metal plate in the box that I didn’t know what it is for. Looks like a mounting bracket. Is that so I can remove the box from the rafter later if I need to?


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Old 11-30-2019, 08:43 AM   #8
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...l6rsmf-sss.pdf

Waste of money if you ask me, I would ask the inspector before buying and installing.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:05 AM   #9
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


I recently installed these in a closet for a client. Awesome install. Just cut a 6 1/4" hole, pull your wiring through, use their jbox and stuff it all back in the ceiling. Clips hold it very firmly to ceiling material. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-HLB...EMWR/306051064
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:26 AM   #10
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The advantage to the bracket above is that the location is set instead of having to measure for each hole later.
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Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
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Old 11-30-2019, 04:10 PM   #11
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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Originally Posted by eholmes77 View Post
Another option would be to just coil the romex up for now, drywall over it and then cut holes and wire for final inspection. But inspectors want to see wires in boxes, so I doubt this would be kosher.

This - inspectors are used to seeing wires coiled for recessed lights. You can do this with or without the mounting bracket. No need for a junction box the recessed lights already have junction boxes.
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Old 11-30-2019, 04:21 PM   #12
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
This - inspectors are used to seeing wires coiled for recessed lights. You can do this with or without the mounting bracket. No need for a junction box the recessed lights already have junction boxes.


I ended up doing this with the included bracket. I can slip it off easily later.


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Old 11-30-2019, 06:09 PM   #13
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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I ended up doing this with the included bracket. I can slip it off easily later.


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That works, what did you do for the ones that did not end up near a ceiling joist?
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Old 11-30-2019, 06:16 PM   #14
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


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That works, what did you do for the ones that did not end up near a ceiling joist?


They’re all close enough to a joist or rafter that I can move them around a good bit for final placement. There’s about a foot of wire between the jbox and light, which is nice.


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Old 12-01-2019, 11:17 AM   #15
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Re: How to rough in LED downlight with included driver/J box


One thing I thought I learned from this forum:

You can't have a closed junction box in an enclosed area that has no access.

So as long as jbox can be pulled out of hole when fixture is dropped, and repairs can be made, it's likely able to pass inspection.

When low level lighting is placed above a shower and the lights and hole are 2 inches wide, it's amazing how the jbox squeezes through the hole and lays on top of cement board. No way to ever reach in but jbox is accessible by lowering fixture and pulling on conduit until jbox is out.
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