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Old 08-12-2009, 09:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Because the fan will be up and i don't see any inspector takeing a fan down to check how far in the box is recessed
I can promise you that on one of my final inspections at least 3 or 4 light fixtures are coming down, and the builder or electrician is the one doing it while I watch. I take a random sampling of boxes and check the work in the boxes...Depth, bonding, tying grounds. If the first two or three we check are good I put my faith in the electrician's apparent consistency and good work. If one is wrong we check a couple more...If they're wrong every fixture (including fans) in the house comes down. Personally, I think my little random sampling method is pretty fair!

I always say, the concealed work is only as good as the man doing it.
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:05 AM   #17
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Too tired to read all responses tonight. But THANKS, as always to the folks in electric. The better be some good ideas in there..... You hear me.... fix my mistake....

Crap. I'm still not asleep.

Peace
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
Because the fan will be up and i don't see any inspector taking a fan down to check how far in the box is recessed

I do agree 1 1/2" is quite a space not to do something about it, but i am sure every electrician has left it as is at least once in there life time.

Unfortunately or fortunately in your case they do things different in Canada. A ceiling fan must have a fan rated box and I can assure you it wouldn't be wise to cover the fan box with the fan unless you like installing them twice. As kc termite explained some inspectors will randomly ask for a look see in a fan box. I can also assure you that an inspector will not allow that major of a recess from the finished surface final inspection or otherwise. You have any idea how bad you are going to look when the inspector sees you intentionally covered a violation??? Not to mention how bad it was. We are talking an 1 1/2".


Btw... mind giving me just a tad bit of credit I've been through a final inspection or two....and no I've never left a box I installed 1 1/2" recessed. I have installed extenders in old work though.

You being an apprentice I'm amazed you seem to advocate that it will be fine to slop up your work once and a while with a poorly located fixture box and not mind the inspector calling you on it. Not a good idea when he comes calling on your next job....
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:04 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
I can promise you that on one of my final inspections at least 3 or 4 light fixtures are coming down, and the builder or electrician is the one doing it while I watch. I take a random sampling of boxes and check the work in the boxes...Depth, bonding, tying grounds. If the first two or three we check are good I put my faith in the electrician's apparent consistency and good work. If one is wrong we check a couple more...If they're wrong every fixture (including fans) in the house comes down. Personally, I think my little random sampling method is pretty fair!

I always say, the concealed work is only as good as the man doing it.
I have never had an inspector to ask me to remove a fixture that was installed.
Who is going to get the bill for me having to remove and reinstall several light fixtures or fans?
I am surprised that you can get away with this action on a final inspection!
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:11 PM   #20
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The inspector likely will see that type issue before final. My point is you don't cover a 1 1/2 inch recess from finish...that's just too freakin much....and I would hate to get called on something easily fixed. The extender is easy for Leah whether the inspector sees it or not. After all they do have a reason for that code requirement.

JBfan

It is vary rare to have a inspector ask to pull down a fan. He usually has a reason other than just wanting to see if you know how to do the wiring. What amazes me here is why do it when you can fix it easy...?? "Just hang the fan" what's that??
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:16 PM   #21
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Why would this problem not be caught on the rough inspection? I would think 1-1/2" would be easy to see without the ceiling up.

Last edited by J. V.; 08-13-2009 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:41 PM   #22
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I have never had an inspector to ask me to remove a fixture that was installed.
Who is going to get the bill for me having to remove and reinstall several light fixtures or fans?
I am surprised that you can get away with this action on a final inspection!
When would you suggest that the inspection of the fixture's attachment take place? None of the pertinent stuff is there at rough-in (the fixture, the hickey strap/mounting plate, etc). Sometimes the box isn't even there since they are often centered over vanities and such with cut-in boxes. Do you know how often I pull a bathroom wall sconce and don't even find a box??? Pretty darned often.

As for the bill, I don't give a hoot. It isn't the inspector's concern whether or not anyone makes or loses money, it is their concern (or it should be) to ensure that the structure's systems meet the minimum standard in the code. The job of the contractor is to provide access to the structure's systems for inspection, so bill him.

If your inspectors aren't checking an occasional fixture out then they're essentially ripping pages out of the code. As an inspector I've learned that I shouldn't put faith in anyone's ability or willingness to do things right, and that has been clearly illustrated by Darren earlier in the thread.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:04 PM   #23
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If I have any doubt I take pictures of everything
On rough Inspector wanted lag bolts in an interior ledger for 4' ceiling
He did not request an inspection before insulation
I installed them, insulation was the next inspection
He did remember the lag bolts, I offered to remove some insulation - ladder was already in place - or he could look at the pics I took
He trusted me since I was prepared to show him anything he wanted

I'd use a box extender if I had to, I'd never just leave it
But so far haven't had that problem



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Old 08-13-2009, 02:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
Drywall saw and tape and mud to patch the hole you cut so you can access the box bracing.
This is what I would do. Drywall is easy to fix. Even a 16" square cut-out could be repaired in no time. I am not an electrician, but it seems to me that a fan installed on a recessed box is a weak installation. Some fans are pretty darn heavy.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:30 PM   #25
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This is what I would do. Drywall is easy to fix. Even a 16" square cut-out could be repaired in no time. I am not an electrician, but it seems to me that a fan installed on a recessed box is a weak installation. Some fans are pretty darn heavy.
The recessed nature of the box has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the connection to the fan. Longer 8-32 screws may have to be used to attach to the two points on the box but the connection's strength is still the same.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
The recessed nature of the box has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the connection to the fan. Longer 8-32 screws may have to be used to attach to the two points on the box but the connection's strength is still the same.

Oh
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:20 PM   #27
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I install a fan box
Then I run a 2x4 between the joists/rafters too
Box is then attached securely to the 2x as well
Makes foir a very secure installation

One fan I'm looking at has a 68" fan spread





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Old 08-13-2009, 06:18 PM   #28
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Leah, next time you install a box, use a scrap piece of sheetrock to gauge the depth of the box.

As for inspectors, if you are in an area where you know the inspectors are like that, you simply leave the fixtures hanging by the wires until the inspection. Leave the fan canopies down, etc. I worked in Homestead, Fl years ago, and the inspector there was like that. So instead of hanging a light and then taking it down, I'd leave a few dangling so he could see. A few switches and receptacles would be out as well.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:53 PM   #29
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I KNEW there had to be an easy solution. Don't worry your pretty little heads. I haven't lost any sleep about...THIS... I'll have to check out some electrical supply places for the extender.

Three thoughts:
1. Yes, I could cut out the drywall and re-do it, but as a relatively novice DIYer I find it really useful to ask the question, "Is there and easier way?" Turns out the answer is 'yes' so glad I didn't get out my saw.

2. For me, the whole point of re-wiring this room was to eliminate a significant fire hazard. Not doing it to code defeats that goal. Gambling with the inspection defeats that goal. Three box extenders = good night sleep for the next 20 years.

3. The neat part about doing my own DIY is that I am learning a lot! Now I can add to the list of new things I know: consider the future ceiling level when you install boxes.

Thanks guys.

Check out my latest project for the room: recreating the historic crown moulding: http://www.diychatroom.com/f98/how-u...oulding-50916/
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:58 PM   #30
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I did my ceiling boxes depth for drywall
But I may be adding a wood T&G ceiling at some point
Knowing these box extenders are available is nice
Kinda figured they must have something like this



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