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Old 05-31-2010, 07:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Ahhh..va - missed that somehow
Yeah that changes things

Isn't a 40a/50a hard wired stove an appliance ?
So that should mean hardwired stoves & appliances also need lockouts on the breaker ?

I still think with an appliance Off is Off...no need for another disconnect in a residential setting
422.34 states that if the control has an OFF position then switch is not needed
Stoves & dishwashers have an OFF position
So for one family (C) applies - breaker is OK
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:10 AM   #17
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Nap, just my observation, the inspectors we deal with in Berrien County, MI do not enforce this for residential installs.
You really don't think Simpson would enforce it? He is notorious for being a nit picker.

I'll have to remember to call him soon and ask.

Last edited by nap; 06-01-2010 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post

I still think with an appliance Off is Off...no need for another disconnect in a residential setting
422.34 states that if the control has an OFF position then switch is not needed
Stoves & dishwashers have an OFF position
So for one family (C) applies - breaker is OK
breaker is fine if it either is in view of the appliance or that has a locking ability.



and even in 422.34(C),did you miss in the main paragraph where it says:

the switch is acceptable as the disconnecting means WHERE OTHER MEANS OF DISCONNECTING ARE PROVIDED IN OCCUPANCIES as specified in 422.34(C).

then look down in C and it states: the service disconnecting means shall be permitted to be the OTHER disconnecting means.

That still does not remove the requirement of 422.21(B). You still have to have the lock on it

The point of this is not just to kill power to the unit. How do you propose changing the dishwasher with just turning the old on off?
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:08 AM   #19
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The point of this is not just to kill power to the unit. How do you propose changing the dishwasher with just turning the old on off?
Turn off the breaker. I can understand what your saying if it was a commercial kitchen but its not.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:01 AM   #20
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Just to make sure I'm on the right page...I will now hardwire the DW to the box. To secure the wire I will use a metal face plate with a punch out for a wire clamp. This will keep the wires secure. All ok?

Thanks!
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:38 PM   #21
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Turn off the breaker. I can understand what your saying if it was a commercial kitchen but its not.
there is no exception for residential
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gone_fishing View Post
Just to make sure I'm on the right page...I will now hardwire the DW to the box. To secure the wire I will use a metal face plate with a punch out for a wire clamp. This will keep the wires secure. All ok?

Thanks!
If you are using a plastic box, I would suggest using a plastic faceplate. If you use a metal faceplate and a plastic box, you have to figure out how to bond the faceplate to the EGC (ground wire).
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:09 PM   #23
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metal box, metal plate.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:42 PM   #24
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metal box, metal plate.
then all should be fine. Just make sure you bond the EGC to the box. The contact of the cover to the box would provide the necessary bond for the cover.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:03 AM   #25
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I wouldn't hard wire the dishwasher I always think about service after the fact.. I would extend the outlet to the next cabinet where the water and drain are and leave extra cord (approved) on the dishwasher and plug it in under the sink. You never know when you need to unplug it in a hurry or just for on the spot service. It is also easier to install as you push the dishwasher in you feed the cord through to the other cabinet.
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