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Old 11-24-2010, 07:53 AM   #1
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Is it generally against code to "split a room"?


What I mean is the following:

Because of the age of my house the whole upstairs (2 bedrooms, 1 bath) are on the same circuit.

I'd like to add breakers in the empty slots and at the very least split it into

[bathroom / bedrooms]
and preferably
[bathroom / bedroom1 / bedroom 2]

What I'm worried about is: If I do that, Is it required to pull out the wiring in the walls as well and replace it all the way to the outlets?

It actually wouldn't be that horrible of a job, but if I have to replace every piece of wire I'll take my chances the way it is now.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:16 AM   #2
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How old is your wiring? You don't have to pull out all the wires if they meet current code. Is there a ground wire?
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:22 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoconutPete View Post
What I mean is the following:

Because of the age of my house the whole upstairs (2 bedrooms, 1 bath) are on the same circuit.

I'd like to add breakers in the empty slots and at the very least split it into

[bathroom / bedrooms]
and preferably
[bathroom / bedroom1 / bedroom 2]

What I'm worried about is: If I do that, Is it required to pull out the wiring in the walls as well and replace it all the way to the outlets?

It actually wouldn't be that horrible of a job, but if I have to replace every piece of wire I'll take my chances the way it is now.
It would be idea to put the bathroom on it's own 12 gage - 20 A circuit to bring it up to code.

If the wires are in good condition with ground, there is no reason you can't run a new feed to the first junction box for a room in each room - splitting them were it goes into the second room.

Jamie
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:29 AM   #4
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BX wiring. No ground. I can pretty much figure out what the answer to this one is going to be.

The part that really irks me is that the bathroom was redone in 2007 while the previous owner still lived there and the "contractor" just tied into the existing circuit with the new romex they ran for the light / fan / outlets in the bathroom.

So from the way it sounds, I should still be OK to run a new circuit and connect the bathroom to it as long as I leave the bedrooms alone?
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoconutPete View Post
BX wiring. No ground. I can pretty much figure out what the answer to this one is going to be.

The part that really irks me is that the bathroom was redone in 2007 while the previous owner still lived there and the "contractor" just tied into the existing circuit with the new romex they ran for the light / fan / outlets in the bathroom.
This happens all the time with unlicensed people, it's not your fault that the old owner did this, but your the one that suffers. If the work had been inspected, it should have been easy to catch. It's probably not worth the trouble to try and go after the previous owner / contractor.

You might be able to use that new romex that was installed in the bath, but I would inspect the connections and make sure it looks like it was done properly. Also, make sure where it junctioned to the BX is accessible so you can change the feed to a new piece of romex. Also make sure it is 12 gage.

I would just rewire, pull new 12 gage romex from the panel, 1 circuit (1 cable) each to: bath, bed 1 and bed 2. Then re-wire the outlets / fixtures, bringing everything up to current code. You might need to add some more outlets to bring it to code also.

Jamie
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:37 AM   #6
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Yes, bathroom on its own circuit is ideal & required by code (or shared outlet circuit between bathrooms)
You can leave the bedrooms alone
Or add another circuit & some outlets in one bedroom or both
You can have as many circuits as you want to a room
Bedrooms now require AFCI protection
So adding a circuit there means buying an AFCI breaker



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Old 11-24-2010, 08:45 AM   #7
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Thanks guys.

Yeah - it does suck. It's really an interesting experience to learn this house, all the stuff from 1930 is ... "interesting" at times, but it's really only when I start digging into the parts that have been "remodelled" that I find shoddy craftsmanship.

The woman who lived there before us is a sweet old lady that we still talk to sometimes because she's friends with the neighbors. If I was a betting man I'd bet she had no clue it wasn't done properly so I see no reason to pursue it that way.

Sounds like it's not as bad of a task as I had feared, I just need to figure out where exactly the power comes up to the attic. I'ts a MAZE up there, I was trying to trace stuff last night... there's 2 junctions up there, one has yet to be explored, but the other one connects to:

1: Attic fan
2: Bathroom
3: Unknown 1
4: Unknown 2

One of the unknowns have got to be the supply, I guess if I can't trace it i'll just have to shut off the breaker, separate them all out and test them with the power back on and then go from there.

I do like the idea of adding 3 new circuits, hooking the bathroom to one and then tackling the bedrooms as I am able to rewire the outlets over time. It'll probably just be the bathroom in the immediate future.

Now I just have to find the best route for cables.... Is it a bad idea to use the vent stack as a starting point?
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:14 AM   #8
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If you are going to modifiy the bathroom circuit it must meet current code. The bathroom receptacle must be a 20 amp circuit. It can't feed anything other than stuff in the bathroom. The bathroom lights can be on the 20 amp circuit but are not required to be. They can be on the bedroom circuits. The bedroom cirucits must be AFCI protected.
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
If you are going to modifiy the bathroom circuit it must meet current code. The bathroom receptacle must be a 20 amp circuit. It can't feed anything other than stuff in the bathroom. The bathroom lights can be on the 20 amp circuit but are not required to be. They can be on the bedroom circuits. The bedroom cirucits must be AFCI protected.
There isn't a "bathroom circuit" - there's only "upstairs". I'd be creating the bathroom circuit, but I understand everything has to be 20amp for the bathroom.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoconutPete View Post
There isn't a "bathroom circuit" - there's only "upstairs". I'd be creating the bathroom circuit, but I understand everything has to be 20amp for the bathroom.
Pete.,

There is two way you can do with your bathroom set up

Option A : Run new delicated circuit for bathroom and have everything on that circuit but run the GFCI after the light switch { unless you have a luminaire in shower then run it thru the GFCI.

Option B : Run the new 20 amp circuit for bathroom Recpetales only but the lights can be used from other circuits

So there is a two way you can do this to order meet the NEC however just keep in your mind you may have to install the AFCI breaker for your bedroom circuit[s]

As Far for old BX cable I know they do have a bonding strap build in but the archivee heel is the connector that where the trouble start.

If you have reuse the BX cable I am seriously keep the metal box so you can keep the BX cable bonded otherwise you will loose the grounding. { Modern NM or MC will be not a issue at all }

You can use the vent pipe chase { it not always the best route depending on how they breach the floor plus stud or plate }


Merci.
Marc
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
Option A : Run new delicated circuit for bathroom and have everything on that circuit but run the GFCI after the light switch { unless you have a luminaire in shower then run it thru the GFCI.

Marc:

This is the option I'm thinking. The bathroom isn't huge, it only contains:
1: Fan (no light)
2: Vanity lights
3: GFCI outlets

After a year in the house I haven't hooked up the bedroom TV yet, and with winter coming there will be no a/c in there for a while so the load should be minimal and I feel a lot better about the bedrooms sharing a circuit than bedroom/bedroom/bathroom sharing a circuit.

With my luck, the "contractor" probably used 14G wire and I'll have to redo that as well, but I guess my first adventure is trying to find a way to get the [email protected] cable from the attic into the basement.


Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:34 PM   #12
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I know you mention older home that builted in 1930 but it may have a good chance you may snag into ballon frame house if that the case the exterior wall cavity will have straight shot all the way from the attic to basement still so if any chance if you have one or two cavity uninsluated then you can able snake in the new conductor in.

Even thru if wall is insluated but you may hit the firestop along the way { there will be at least one per floor }

before you go that route take a good or strong flashlight and shine down the vent stack you should able see it without blocking the view due majtory of the time the upstair and downstair bathroom useally I say useally most case will be on same spot between the two.

Merci.
Marc
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:25 PM   #13
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You must meet current code if rewiring the bathroom. That means the circuit MUST be 20 and it must serve only the bathroom. No sharing with the bedroom
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
You must meet current code if rewiring the bathroom. That means the circuit MUST be 20 and it must serve only the bathroom. No sharing with the bedroom
Yep, that's one reason I'm even more irritated with the "contractor" who did the bathroom - they tied the bathroom into an existing 15 amp breaker serving 2 bedrooms when the bathroom needs to be on its own 20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm 90% done with insulating the side attic and as soon as that's done I'll be working on snaking a 12g wire from the basement to the attic to put the bathroom on its own circuit.
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:31 AM   #15
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That one prinpical reason why I rather run the bathroom on it own circuit due some peoples like to use pretty good size hair dryer it can pretty much put the 15 amp circuit to limit.

Just run new 20 amp circuit for bathromm and be done with it.

Merci,
Marc
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