Garage Wiring - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Old 04-10-2010, 08:39 PM   #1
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default

garage wiring


my wife and i bought our house 3 years ago. i liked the house because of the large garage. then i discovered that i couldn't even run a vaccum. the previous owner ran a 1/2" pvc pipe and 15amp service. i need 40amps. i have called the for locating, have lined up an electrician but he won't dig. have purchased 100' of tech cable, as well as sub panel (8) breaker. digging is where i run into a challenge. the prev owner also paved the back yard...all of it! 4000sq' i don't know what they did but its not code. i'm aprehensive about starting. i would like to use a cutter of some kind for ashfalt as i do plan on driving over the area and the line will have one bend and the trench atleast 85' long. the only trenchers that i can find to rent have a max depth of 18". am i going to have to dig the rest by hand? my proposed trench would also be running in line with utillities for 40' and i have a 3' grade difference from my howse to the ally. would this be something best left to pros. i called a few electric companies they don't dig. i need my shop with 40amps. thanks
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-10-2010, 09:40 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 780
Rewards Points: 500
Default


All tool rentals that I have seen have trenchers that will go down 48". You will need to go down 24". You don't say how close you will be to underground utilities. I would reroute if necessary to stay at least several feet from the utilities.
hayewe farm is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-10-2010, 10:51 PM   #3
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default


i'm not quite sure how close i will be. my property is a pie lot and the garage is located on the oposite side of my utils. until i make the bend up towards the panel in the middle of my house. all of my utils connect to the same side within 3'. my first idea was to dig up the old cable and just replace with my 8 guage tech cable. but the more i think about it, i think the old one is just beneath the ashphalt. in that case i have no real reference point. but i live in calgary ab and it gets way cold so my guess would be that my utils are below 3'. i always thought i had a 4' frost line.

can i just dig a trench right next to the concrete while i'm running up the side of my house to the main panel? what about running in the ground to the house and then running throught the basement? i have to get it all inspected just the same, but i only want to do this once. in fact i don't want to do it at all but i have no choice. i am aware of some shortcuts like doubling up on 110, but the old stuff is only 1/2" and i need larger.
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-10-2010, 11:11 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 780
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Around here we have a phone number to call to have all utilities marked before we dig. Unless you know for sure how deep and where the utilities are I would be afraid to use a trencher. If you can avoid the utilities all together, even if you have to come out the side of your house.
hayewe farm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 11:30 AM   #5
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto Ontario
Posts: 1,165
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Have it located(all underground marked out). These numbers are taken from the canadian electrical code as your in calgary. You local municipality may have stricter requirements.
Non vehicular areas:
Cable not having metal sheath 600mm below grade
Cable having metal sheath or in raceway 450mm
vehicular areas:
no metal sheath 900mm
metal sheath or raceway 600mm
These distances are from the TOP OF THE CONDUCTOR not the depth of trench.

Alayer of 6mm screened sand or earth has to be in the trench and has to extend 75mm above and below the conductors
Your allowed to take 150mm off the trench depth if you provide some form of mechanical protection. The mechanical protection will go on top of the sand if used. This can be a 1.5inch thick treated plank or 1/2" of poured concrete. If you incase the cable in concrete or put it in a raceway this would count as well.
A layer of cation tape must be buried at roughly half the depth of trench directly above the cable as well.

If you hit bedrock let me know...there's a whole other set of numbers for that.
andrew79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #6
Member
 
biggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,630
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


how many conductors (wires) are in that 100' of tech cable?
biggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 08:25 AM   #7
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default


thanks for the help. this is my dilema. i have a gas line the will intersect, my main panel is where the other 2 lines are, sewer and power

now my understanding is that the back of the hose is my 3rd level, the depth of it's foundation only 3'. that is the bigest problem. because of it's depth the gas line might give me a rotten egg surprize.

the locator wasn't that helpfull. he said he could get me to within a meter one way or the other, and depth? he wouldn't tell me for sure he looked a bit surprised that i even came and talked to him

i haven't installed the sub panel yet so i can move it, but to where?
should i start digging by the main panel? or right where the bend in the old cable would most likely be? i can dig as deep as i need to there

most likely, i'll make a big mess of my yard but i'm not a big fan of a paved yard anyway...lol
Attached Thumbnails
garage wiring-100413063000.jpg  
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 08:43 AM   #8
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles View Post
how many conductors (wires) are in that 100' of tech cable?

the tech cable i have is an 8awg 4 wire unit wraped in thick pipe and coated with urathane atleast 1/16" thick. and the cost is $18/m... but i paid $4.69/m 3 weeks ago at home D.... that's why i love spring. i was told by several in the industry that this stuff is above code for residential use in my area and capable of no less than 40amp

Last edited by cowboy dan; 04-13-2010 at 08:44 AM. Reason: spelling
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 09:51 AM   #9
Member
 
biggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,630
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default


why can't you just pull the tech #8awg thru the 1/2 PVC exsisting with the old 15 amp wires as the pull........ unless there is a minimum on #8 and the pipe it needs to be in
biggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 09:59 AM   #10
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto Ontario
Posts: 1,165
Rewards Points: 500
Default


the reason the locator said he'd get you within a meter was that your not supposed to dig within a meter of the located lines unless it unavoidable. This doesn't have to be a huge trench so why take the chance on hitting the gas...when you get close to where it been located use a shovel and hand dig it up. They have no way of telling you the depth of the cable with the equipment that they use. They aren't xraying as some may think, they "hook up" to each utility and send a small signal along either a wire or the pipe if possible. The hand unit picks up the signal but it's not an exact science. This is why they want you to stay a meter away. If you go inside that meter and hit something it's your fault. If you hit something outside it's their fault and you won't be charged for the repair.

I'm not sure how long of a run we're talking but you really only need a wide enough trench for a pipe(cable in your case)....In the high risk areas you may have to break down and dig by hand
andrew79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 10:04 AM   #11
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto Ontario
Posts: 1,165
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles View Post
why can't you just pull the tech #8awg thru the 1/2 PVC exsisting with the old 15 amp wires as the pull........ unless there is a minimum on #8 and the pipe it needs to be in
without actually doing the numbers i would think a teck cable that size would need to at least be in a 2.5 or 3" pipe.
andrew79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 10:38 AM   #12
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles View Post
why can't you just pull the tech #8awg thru the 1/2 PVC exsisting with the old 15 amp wires as the pull........ unless there is a minimum on #8 and the pipe it needs to be in
i would love to do it that way, but you see, the previous home owner use 1/2"od pvc cond. i need atleast 3/4" to run 2 110 lines

the tech cable is 1-1/4 and require no additional pipe... just lay it in trench with sand over/ under

Last edited by cowboy dan; 04-13-2010 at 10:41 AM. Reason: added to post
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 10:50 AM   #13
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew79 View Post
the reason the locator said he'd get you within a meter was that your not supposed to dig within a meter of the located lines unless it unavoidable. This doesn't have to be a huge trench so why take the chance on hitting the gas...when you get close to where it been located use a shovel and hand dig it up. They have no way of telling you the depth of the cable with the equipment that they use. They aren't xraying as some may think, they "hook up" to each utility and send a small signal along either a wire or the pipe if possible. The hand unit picks up the signal but it's not an exact science. This is why they want you to stay a meter away. If you go inside that meter and hit something it's your fault. If you hit something outside it's their fault and you won't be charged for the repair.

I'm not sure how long of a run we're talking but you really only need a wide enough trench for a pipe(cable in your case)....In the high risk areas you may have to break down and dig by hand
i understand what you're saying.
so if i were to hand dig the area around the gas line, i should be ok.
i was thinking i might cut a hole in my concrete at the rear of my house and run inside the floor directly under my 3rd level. then i might avoid running past that 1m safty, when i start digging up the side of my house?
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 10:57 AM   #14
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto Ontario
Posts: 1,165
Rewards Points: 500
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy dan View Post
i would love to do it that way, but you see, the previous home owner use 1/2"od pvc cond. i need atleast 3/4" to run 2 110 lines

the tech cable is 1-1/4 and require no additional pipe... just lay it in trench with sand over/ under
yup...that was just for aguements sake .
The sheath on the tech cable lets you go a little shallower with your trench. Being as your crossing a driveway then that area will have to be 24" below grade. The area that won't be travelled will only have to go
18" deep. If you add a treated plank on top of the run then you can subtract 6" of both those numbers.
If your lucky and your gasline isn't on the high traffic part of the run and you add mechanical protection then you only have to go down 12" and the gasline most likely is deeper than that. Well it will be a little deeper as it would have to 12" to the top of the cable.
andrew79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 11:23 AM   #15
Member
 
cowboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 77
Rewards Points: 75
Default


thanks for the info. i feel better now

i will get enough pressure treat to do the job
cowboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
wiring code w.r.t. NEW folding stairs in garage attic fredsterl Electrical 4 09-25-2009 11:05 PM
Raising up my garage jimmyfloyd Building & Construction 5 09-17-2009 10:39 PM
Wiring garage workshop Kay Man Electrical 10 08-28-2008 12:04 PM
wiring garage clive Electrical 6 08-20-2008 12:36 PM
Wiring my garage with direct burial cable? Earl Smith Electrical 3 08-10-2008 06:28 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts