Fireplace, Wall Space, And Outlet Requirements - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Display Modes
Old 11-14-2016, 11:29 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 28
Default

Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


I am working under the 2005 NEC. I understand the 2' wall space requirement between doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings.

I have a fireplace between two doorways. Everything is currently roughed in and waiting for inspection. The rough openings currently leave 2'6" between the doorway and the actual fireplace opening. However, after the fireplace is finished with a hearth and surround, there will be less than 2' of space between the doorway and start of the hearth.

How is this requirement typically interpreted? Do you start measuring wall space at the actual fireplace opening or at the start of the hearth, mantle, or other surround?
tedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-14-2016, 01:52 PM   #2
Member
 
Oso954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern Calif.
Posts: 8,981
Rewards Points: 1,858
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


Not sure I've ever run into your situation. I would slap a receptacle in on both of those "walls". People like power around the fireplace whether its a clock, Xmas decorations, a lamp on the mantle, etc.

If you are trying to leave them out, ask your AHJ how he would interpret it. His interpretation is the one that counts.
Oso954 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-14-2016, 02:23 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 28
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


Yeah, I left a message but I probably won't get a response before the inspection. It will be a real challenge putting receptacles in there as there are triple LVL's directly underneath. Going over and around is possible but would take almost 100' of romex to get up, down, back up again, around a beam to the other side of the fireplace and back down. This is a see through unit and the wall in question is on a dining side where you would be extremely unlikely to plug something in. I already have outlets in the corners of both adjacent walls where they are more practical.

It really comes down to how one defines a fireplace. When I think of a fireplace I think of the hearth and mantle as being a part of it, so I think I intend to argue that when you consider the hearth, the wall space is <2'.
tedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-14-2016, 02:37 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,039
Rewards Points: 2,084
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedro View Post
I am working under the 2005 NEC. I understand the 2' wall space requirement between doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings.

I have a fireplace between two doorways. Everything is currently roughed in and waiting for inspection. The rough openings currently leave 2'6" between the doorway and the actual fireplace opening. However, after the fireplace is finished with a hearth and surround, there will be less than 2' of space between the doorway and start of the hearth.

How is this requirement typically interpreted? Do you start measuring wall space at the actual fireplace opening or at the start of the hearth, mantle, or other surround?
I would put an outlet there. It will be a lot easier now than later. In the past few years I have been asked to install an outlet and cable wiring over fireplaces for the connection of flat screen TV's. I would consider doing that now also.

A floor receptacle would satisfy the code requirement. They are used when walls have a lot of glass.
__________________
John Grabowski

MrElectrician.TV
MrElectricianTV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 05:25 PM   #5
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 7,828
Rewards Points: 2,006
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


I would not consider any part of the hearth wall space.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 09:49 PM   #6
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,936
Rewards Points: 3,840
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


100 foot of cable to go around a fireplace due to framing?
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 10:10 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Upper mid-west
Posts: 3,163
Rewards Points: 4,812
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


I agree - regardless of the eventual size of the wall, I would put a receptacle on it anyway since you might just use it.
stick\shift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 07:27 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 381
Rewards Points: 760
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


This article 210 Branch Circuits considers a fireplace as an opening (the same as a door way would be). Hence the spacing would be from the fire place to the left not more than 6 feet and the same for the right not more than six feet. However, in your case the spacing goes to a door on either side less than 6 feet but more then 2 feet, hence again a receptacle is required in that =>2=<6 foot spacing rule.

The very best thing to do is ask the inspector. As mentioned much better to find out now than later and to how he/she interprets this spacing rule.

How they determine linear floor line spacing could be their personal idea. Example: If the fireplace opening is on the floor level it is then considered an opening as such a doorway would be. If the fireplace is not on floor level and there is a bench seat in front of it where the actual fireplace opening is up about 2 feet off the floor and the bench seat runs further from left end of the fireplace to the left and also the right does this now count as an opening; maybe not because there is no break along the floor line.

The article does not mention a hearth. Is the hearth considered actually part of the fireplace wall opening? We don't know. What if the fireplace is only 3 feet wide literally at floor level (wall opening such as a doorway) but the hearth and wall are all covered in stone from floor to ceiling and from either side of the fireplace opening from either end extending outward to the corner of the wall. I have yet to see any diagrams explaining these measurements in detail referencing a fireplace. Take for example a sliding glass door. This is specific in measuring floor space. The sliding door does not count as wall space but an opening while the fixed panel of the sliding glass door counts as wall space but not an opening.

I would speak the the inspector to be sure.

You can always use floor boxes.
afjes2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 11:38 PM   #9
Disrespectful to dirt
 
Fishbulb28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,075
Rewards Points: 2,148
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


Quote:
I am working under the 2005 NEC.
This is significant because the 2005 doesn't have any exemption for built in furnishings at all. Wallspace is measured opening to opening, no exceptions. You might have a weak argument in later versions but not here.
Fishbulb28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 06:12 AM   #10
Member
 
hkstroud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,356
Rewards Points: 6,694
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


I bet a cup of coffee that the subject never comes up during the inspection.
hkstroud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 02:00 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 28
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
100 foot of cable to go around a fireplace due to framing?
I might be exaggerating a little, but it's a long ways. It's impossible to come through the bottom without doing a floor receptacle, and going above requires going up a vaulted ceiling.
tedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 02:04 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 28
Default

Re: Fireplace, wall space, and outlet requirements


Quote:
Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
I bet a cup of coffee that the subject never comes up during the inspection.
This is kind of what I'm banking on. After a little more consideration, I realized I can come off a bedroom circuit above to hit one side of the fireplace without too much trouble. I'm going to add this one in just to have it and argue my case on the other side IF it comes up.
tedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
countertop outlet placement tom31415926 Electrical 3 06-02-2016 05:40 PM
replacing bath wall heater with exterior outlet grjr Electrical 19 11-26-2014 11:15 PM
Outlet box outside of wall? tommy83 Electrical 1 11-28-2012 12:06 PM
Metal outlet box in attic space grounding BlueBSH Electrical 3 11-03-2012 05:27 PM
Range outlet pushes oven too far from wall givemeabreak Electrical 8 08-19-2008 12:14 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts